I came across this video series that is very interesting to view concerning what year the start of the tribulation period prophesied in the bible is to take place. I believe that Christians WILL be going through the tribulation period, there being plenty of Scripture to back this fact up. Please take a look at this videos series, since the man in the video explains things quite well, showing us his reasonings very thoroughly in detail with charts. Thanks.
This next video (this doesn’t mean that I want you to order their merchandise, or that I agree with their interpretions on when the Lord will take His people out of this world, because I don’t) shows that there were four blood red moons in 1967 and 1968, and that there will be will the same thing occuring at the time of the Passover in 2015.
This next video shows, among other things, that in 1948 there were four blood-red moons. This was the year of the re-birth of nation of Israel. This video also explains that there will be a total solar eclipse in 2015, which happens to be the start of the religious calender, Passover happening two weeks later. This is a must see video!
Filed under: Christians, Evangelicals, Liberalism, Satan, bible, eternal life, heaven, hell, homosexuality, religion | Tagged: Anti-Christ, bible prophesy, book of Revelation, Daniel's 70th week, End times, Great Tribulation Period, Jesus Christ, mark of the beast, prophecy, rapture
The Tribulation may begin in 2010? I don’t know. But I feel compelled to debate the issue, because I do get attacked for not caring.
I think we should address our energies on compassion and mercy.
So many people say all you have to do is declare Jesus your Lord and Saviour, and you will be fine. Nope. I believe Jesus wants us to help others, try to understand them, show compassion, and fight for justice.
“To him who shows mercy, mercy will be shown.” The rest doesn’t really matter.
I also like “Preach the gospel, use words if you must.”
Can’t remember who said that.
If the Tribulation does start, I can’t really do anything about it, so I’ll not concern myself with it. If my neighbor is being harrasssed, that I can do something about. I’ll spend my time being concerned with what I can change.
When the trib starts, you will be limited in what you can do, a fascist government tends to do that.
But there are many things you can do to prepare for tribulation. In my book, “Prepare Before All Hell Breaks Loose!” I have a chapter on preparing for tribulation, any emergency, storms, terrorist attacks, blizzards, nuclear, quakes, etc.. Preparing is so important because when the stores are empty you are at the mercy of others and during uncertain times folks yend to be unsure about sharing what they have, after all, it may be months before they can shop again. So be smart, prepare.
Consider what Jesus said in Matthew 24 concerning signs of the times and warning us to prepare of coming famines, …. we KNOW this is coming.
When you look around, you see Colony Collapse Disorder in bees, Ug99 a wheat rot fugus affecting Asia and Africa moving slowly across the globe. Our government using 25% of all corn produced in the US for gasoline, this means farmers plant less wheat driving up the price of wheat. Then there’s 40+ states suffering drought, and floods are on the rise. Solar cycle 24 has proved to be a sunspotless cycle, resulting in global cooling, that means less food too.
Please consider preparing for tribulation visit my site http://www.spiritwars.net for all info.
I believe 2010 is going to be the beginning of the end. Check out my chapter on the timing of the rapture. 2010 ia almost here.
Mary Kay Mason
Mary Kay Mason,
Thank you for sharing your knowledge and insights into the coming evil that will descend upon the Earth.
We can prepare ouselves as Mary says, but keep in mind Jesus’ warning that those who seek to keep their lives in the coming days will lose it, and those who lose their lives for Christ’s sake will gain it.
777denny
Kenny this is meant for you only.
You are so right. Yes, preparing is really only for the beginning. They will imprison us, torture us, sentence us to death. To die in Christ is gain!
As you can see on my website the many, many scripture verses I ask believes to memorize as they will be more valuable than gold to hold the promises of God in our hearts as we face the beast.
We must lose our lives for Christ sake! I will be a honor and joy to suffer for Christ!
Your sister,
Mary Kay
I have had a sense of danger and impending doom these past several days. I believe the tribulation is about to begin. I fear America will suffer a great calamity sometime from Sept. 19th to October 17th.
The church is in great darkness to what is about to befall us. The Laodicean church is all about prosperity, signs and wonders, self absorption and worldliness.
We should be mourning and in anguish over the current state of America’s many sins. We should be renting our garments and hidden away in our prayer closets, seeking His will. Instead we are watching our 401K, glued to the idiot box and playing with our toys. This present church age is that of the lukewarm believer. Repent!
Please check out the video from Davis Wilkerson, A call to anguish.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8utrtxNRE4Y&feature=related
We must prepare our hearts for the tribulation ahead of us. Please go to http://www.spiritwars.net for more info on preparing.
Thank you Denny for your site. It’s a blessing!
MK
Mary Kay Mason,
Thank you for sharing your thoughts on the church of Yeshua HaMashiach and the imminent trouble you believe Christians and the world are in.
Please continue to feel free to come back often and tell us your thoughts. I look forward to hearing from you.
Thanks,
777denny
Daniel Curran,
I think you have the right idea. We don’t know for sure if these videos will be right or not. But we do know we should show compassion, mercy and warnings to those brothers and sisters in Christ, and those who are not in Christ.
777denny
So glad to see someone else teaching that the Christians will be here for the tribulation period.
The Church[ the body of bornagain believers who walk in obedience and repentance daily with Christ] will not
suffer the great tribulation period, which happens to be the wrath of God on a God denying, Christ rejecting world, his bride will be caught up to meet the lord in the air and then and only then will the anti-christ be revealed to be the world’s answer man and Israel’s false messiah whom they will accept until he goes into the temple and declares that he is God and for them to worship him; scripture bares out the blessed hope of Jesus coming for his church and at the end of seven years will return to the earth at the battle of armageddon to put an end to the anti-christ and all his forces and then set up his 1000 year milleniel reign; if you believe anything contrary to this; then you have no hope and if you are not looking for him to catch away his bride; then likewise he is not coming for you and you will go through the tribulation period because your
heart is not right with God, you just think it is, this period is also known as the time of jacob’s[Israel] trouble, time to sift the one third of the messianc jews
that will be saved through an horrible time of testing.
Clarence tells it in accordance to Jesus’ own Words in Revelation 3:
10 Because thou hast kept the word of My patience, I also will keep thee FROM THE HOUR OF TEMPTATION, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
1 Thess 5:9 teaches the same thing by saying:
God did not appoint us (the Church) to WRATH … and that is what the Great Tribulation is…. the WRATH of God.
God bless everyone reading here, with a revelation of what Christ accomplished for His Body at the Cross … salvation from WRATH ! Praise God!
IsChristSoonToReturn.WordPress.com
IsChristSoonToReturn,
777denny
Wesley,
Thank you for the kudos. Those who teach that Christians will be “raptured” before Daniel’s 70th week are lying.
777denny
Clarence Puckett,
You are not correct. Do not be deceived yourself, nor deceive God’s children any longer. The bible does NOT say we will be “raptured” before Daniel’s 70th week. This heresy started only in about 1830 when a 15-year-old girl had a “vision” that doesn’t even seem to convey that the body of Christ will not be here during the “Great Tribulation Period.” But that didn’t matter, since some men started to teach this evil heresy, and now people make millions of dollars selling books to deceive God’s children. Jesus Christ warned that those who add or take away from the prophecy of the book of Revelation will suffer the wrath of God. I used to believe the pre-trib position until I studied the issue further and discovered that it was a lie. They try and use concepts such as the “thief in the night” and we are not “appointed” unto God’s wrath to convey the false usumption that we will not be on earth before this aweful time period starts. Then they say that the Holy Spirit must be taken out of the way to let the anti-Christ be revealed, thereby concluding that Christians must be taken out of the world, since the Holy Spirit is in them. So they base their whole false doctrine around themes, but not according to the clear Word of God. Jesus told us that there WILL be a great falling away from the faith, and that Christians will betray and hate one another, and that the son of perdition would be revealed before Jesus comes back. It is clear that there is ONLY ONE caching up of God’s children (and not two), which will happen at the LAST trump. God’s wrath doesn’t even start untill about mid-way through this time period. If the Holy Spirit is not on earth, then why does the bible speak about Christians being here? There are links I have provided so that you will not spread this lie around any longer. Those who do so will suffer the wrath of God, just as Jesus Christ warned us.
777denny
I do not read the books of men for my info; never read the first of tim lahaye if that is who you are refering to. I
imagine you probably read from the many revised standard version bibles instead of the KJV 1611 authorized version; don’t be so quick to call a disagreement a lie and try to lay a judgement call upon me; if we disagree on this issue, I have an idea we would disagree on many others; Revelation 3:10
Jesus speaking of a time of temptation that is coming on the earth to try all men, but to those who overcome he promises to keep them from that hour or seven years; there are many more scriptures that support the rapture; it has always been in the bible, just has not being preached, if you want to go through that period;
go for it, I prefer not and I will stick to the blessed hope.
Rapture is not in the bible, but caught away is, and the holy spirit is the restrainer from all hell breaking out until the church is gone; there will be people here then that will know what has happened and will get saved,
but it won’t be a revival type atmosphere, it will be a time when a believer will have to lose his head or take
the anti-christ’s mark, the holy spirit will be active, but mostly with jews, it is their primary calling time, I have thirty years of intensive study, so I am not a novice, I don’t mind debating you, but in a civil Christ-like manner and if not, we don’t dialogue any longer, I will stake my life and future on what I hold to the faith and to God’s holy word and not someone’s private interpretation or denomination; when two people have two separate opinions about the bible; one of them is wrong. You have questions ? I have answers.
One last word for tonight; I am not worried about when the tribulation begins or ends; neither do I intend to be here and if I can help it none of my family as well, all children will be gone before the age of accountability;
whatever God determines that to be, his call, there will be child bearing during that time after the church is gone; life will go on, but not easy.
clarence puckett,
It doesn’t matter if you have 300 years of study and come up with the same false doctrine. There is a warning from the Lord Jesus Christ about adding or taking away from the prophecy of the book of Revelation. You are teaching what is false. I am being kind to you, but forthright (Proverbs 27:6). I do not want you to suffer the wrath of God, nor for you to deceive God’s people any longer about when Christians will meet the Lord in the air.
I use the KJV, if you care to look at my blog. I use King James Bible with Strong’s Numbers for Greek.
I used to believe the lie you now believe. I call it a lie because it is not true. I know all the scripture can quote and have already alluded to and taken out of context, since I used to believe this false doctrine and know it well.
Why don’t you take a look at the following article and tell my what is wrong with it, and we can start from there:
http://www.pbministries.org/Eschatology/william_arnold3/2_ptr.htm
I believe God has shown me reasons why Christians will go through this period of time, and the blessings for those who endure to the end.
Thanks for listening,
777denny
denny: this man is not the first to come up with post tribulation rapture and what gives him such insight and authority of scriptures ? I am not afraid of God’s wrath because I know the truth in the scriptures gives
pre-tribulation catching away of the saints; my own pastor of over 25 years could not convince me of the saints and God’s Church incurring his holy wrath of testing on a world full of false religions, which also will come together as one, which I believe will include alot of the prosperity TV preachers; one world church, one world govt., one world religion overall, I believe catholicism and Islam and all dead as hell religions and churches will merge as one under a false prophet,
first three and a half years it will be a false peace and prosperity, but the cost will be taking of the AC’s mark in your forward or right hand in order to work, function,
purchase or sell or day to day transactions of any kind’
Total allegiance to the AC will be demanded or they will
execute you by cutting your head off; sounds like the muslims are going to be busy, there is over a billion of them and a billion catholics and overtures have already been made since John Paul for them to come into their midst and allow the pope to be their vicar on the earth, each day there is over 64,000 new muslims
either born or being converted to Islam, alot by force.
The church will be at the judgement seat of Christ for seven years and will return to the earth at the time of the battle of armageddon to destroy his enemies and set up his 1000 year milleniem reign, who or what could have changed your mind ? No man has the power to change what I have studied for myself for thirty
years; there is simply no evidence[biblical] contrary to
pre-trib rapture, it just is not there, while the church in America has little or no affiction in the now, does not mean in all other parts of the world christians are not
viciously attacked and killed for their faith each day it happens, some of these preachers making millions on their books are going to give a special account to God and who knows, they may be left behind themselves, if they do not use that money to help struggling christians and missionaires, they have erred from the faith anyway.
The Church of Laodicea in America, what I call the Church of the Pathetic Apathetic, loves the pre trib position because it suits them so well. No worries, be happy, keep up the lazy, dead, lukewarm, dry, empty, lifeless Christian walk and then, swooosh, Jesus will call you home.
Not so fast.
A few points,
1. When IS the last trumpet spoke of at the time of the rapture?
The Day of the Lord is the time of God’s wrath, when does this occur? The book of Revel. says at the end of the trib.. Most of the trib is Satan’s wrath, not God’s.
We will escape the wrath via rapture but we will NOT escape persecution, suffering, trials, torture and death, martyrdom as Jesus said. They will deliver you up to tribulation and will kill you.
3. The Jewish falling away and the son of perdition who sets himself up in the temple claiming to be God and demanding worship, instituting the mark of Satan must come first.
2 Thessalonians 2
1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
This pre trib rapture comes right out of the playbook of Satan to trick you, catching you off guard and unprepared. Don’t fall for it. Study these verses out brother!
Prepare! Now!
For info on how to prepare please go to my website at http://www.spiritwars.net
In His Royal Majesty’s Service,
Mary Kay
clarence puckett,
You have given me not one biblical reason using proper escotology to refute the article I provided to you. You have only regurgitated the false doctrines I have heard for that last 28 years. I can see you love your false doctrine very much, so let God deal with you. You have been warned.
Thanks for listening,
777denny
The average American is aware of the periodic claim that “the end is near.” When Y2K was approaching, outcries of doom, global disruption, and Armageddon were widespread. Hal Lindsey achieved nationwide attention over thirty years ago with his national bestseller The Late Great Planet Earth (1970). A more recent repackaging of the dispensational brand of premillennialism is the popular Left Behind book series (see “The Official…”). Every so often, a religious figure captures national attention, announcing the impending return of Jesus—even to the point of setting a date—only to fade into the anonymity from which he arose when his claim falls flat, but having achieved his “fifteen minutes of fame” (see Whisenant and Brewer, 1989). The sensationalism sells well and tweaks the curiosity of large numbers of people. Incredibly, this pattern has been repeating itself literally for centuries!
Such is the case with the alleged “Rapture.” It comes from the Latin word “rapere,” which means “to seize, snatch out, take away.” Dispensationalists apply this word to the idea that Christ will come suddenly and secretly in the air to snatch away from the Earth the living saints and the resurrected bodies of those saints already deceased. This rapture is supposed to occur just prior to the seven-year Tribulation period, which, in turn, will be followed by the Millennium.
Proponents claim that the Rapture will be secretive. We are told that families will be shocked by the strange disappearance of a mother, father, or child. Driverless cars will collide in the streets (thus the bumper sticker: “In case of rapture, this vehicle will be unmanned”). A man and wife will be in bed; she hears a noise, turns her head, and finds him gone. Planes will crash with no pilots found. These sensational and dramatic examples illustrate the view that the Rapture will be an invisible coming of the Lord for His saints, leaving visible results of chaos and confusion among the remaining unbelievers.
In reality, the word “rapture” is not found in the Bible, though it is claimed to be the Latin equivalent of harpadzo translated “caught up” in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 (NKJV). Lindsey admitted, “[i]t is not found in the Bible” (1970, p. 126), and noted that the word “translation” is just as suitable. Yet the word “translation” does occur in the New Testament. Paul referred to the fact that God “has delivered us from the power of darkness and translated us into the kingdom of the Son of His love” (Colossians 1:13, emp. added). So when an unbeliever obeys the Gospel, receives forgiveness of sins, and is added to the church of Christ, he is taken out of the world and transferred to Christ’s kingdom. This use of the term is certainly a far cry from the idea that it refers to Christians being raptured from the physical Earth to meet Jesus in the air.
The New Testament uses three terms to refer to Christ’s return. First, parousia is translated “coming, presence, or advent.” Second, epiphaneia is translated “appearing, manifestation, or brightness.” Third, apokalupsis is translated “revelation.” Dispensationalism holds that parousia (“coming”) refers to the “Rapture” that occurs seven years before the epiphaneia (“appearing”) or apokalupsis (“revelation).” Accordingly, at the “Rapture,” it is claimed that Jesus will come for the church only, while at the “Revelation,” Jesus will return with the church, and put an end to the “Tribulation” and “Armageddon.”
The primary passage used to support the idea of a “rapture” is 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17. But this passage was not actually given to deal with the return of Christ. Its purpose was twofold. First, it was designed to reassure Christians that their deceased loved ones would be able to share in the Lord’s return. Second, it informed Christians that those who are still living when Christ returns will have no precedence or advantage over those who have already died. This dual function of the text constitutes a very different emphasis from the one imposed upon it by dispensationalists.
The term “Revelation” (apokalupsis) in 1 Corinthians 1:7 is descriptive of what the dispensationalists call the “Rapture,” since Christians await it. But in 2 Thessalonians 1:7, it clearly refers to the “Appearing.” The term “Appearing” (epiphaneia) is used in 1 Timothy 6:14 as the event that terminates Christian activity on Earth, and thus fits the “Rapture” concept. But in 2 Timothy 4:1,8, the references to judgment fit the “Appearing.”
The doctrine of the “Rapture” asserts that believers will be raised seven years before the “Revelation,” and 1,007 years before the end of the “Millennium.” But in four separate verses, Jesus Himself said believers will be raised “at the last day” (John 6:39,40,44,54). There can be no other days after the last day. So the believers cannot be raised at an alleged “Rapture” before the last day.
Finally, the Second Coming of Christ is nowhere depicted as secret, as the “Rapture” advocates affirm. In fact, just the opposite is true. Christ’s coming will be accompanied by “blazing fire” (2 Thessalonians 1:7), the sound of a trumpet (1 Corinthians 15:52), a “shout,” the “voice of the archangel,” and the “trump of God” (1 Thessalonians 4:16). In fact, “every eye will see Him” (Revelation 1:7). These passages show that all persons everywhere will see and hear this event. In fact, the very passage upon which the doctrine of the “Rapture” is founded (i.e., 1 Thessalonians 4:16), far from describing a quiet and secretive event, is about the noisiest verse in the Bible!
When one is willing to remove from the mind all preconceived, complex, and sensational theological concoctions, and simply let the Bible present its own portrait of the end of time and the Second Coming of Christ, the dispensational viewpoint of a postulated “Rapture” is seen to be totally unfounded.
Jimmy,
Bravo and much kudos for an exquisite and well documented rebuttal to pre-tribulationist’s and their false doctrine of the “rapture” of the body of Christ before Daniel’s 70th weeK! All praise, glory and honor go to God.
I have two questions. Firstly, did you write this yourself? Secondly, if you did, can I use this in a blog post? I will give you the credit.
777denny
People ask me who the beast in the Bible represents? Here is my answer! People who seek to destroy Palin’s reputation. This is an example of the evil Beast predicted within Bible prophecy of which I speak. The effort of combined evil minds to destroy Sarah because of her daughters pregnancy and her ex boy friend by deliberately creating negative headlines to put Sarah down within the public eye. People forget that this little twit is cashing in on a million dallars to go on talk shows to trash Sarah..He will say what ever makes him the most money!
That evil effort demonstrates the monster of th ID hidden within these liberal peoples minds.
This monster is unleashed within the minds of many human beasts, who then use their evil destructive power to the destroy some one good acting as an evil predator.
The people in the media who set traps for good people like Sarah Palin within gotcha interviews are evident by their evil fruits.
Such are motivated by a Satanic spirit to stop a good and honest people from gaining power above their imagined authority.
Sarah was just too darn close to the presidency to risk it again. Satan builds his evil anti christ image into the minds of conspiring men and women like Katie on CBS news, then he uses their media influence to destroy the power of Godly people like Sarah Palin, or Mitt Romney, or even George Bush.
People personally accept this beastly influence or mark (marketing)into their minds after its lie sets up a new home wthin their hearts, and executes such evil intentions through hidden masked motives.
The mark of the beast is inside the forehead, as John states, enters into the human intellect, or human mind. Not “on the forehead”, but “inside the forehead.”Revelation 13-10.”
I am trying to expose this monster to all christians because they do not yet see it. They think it is a computer implant to track people. This evil implant directed by the liberal media to influence millions of minds is destroying America by selling us out to socialism and causing us to accept and tolerate an evil conspiring leadership. It has already caused Americans to sell out our constitution and turn against any honest leadership..
It gains its power by destroying the power of good and honest leaders. With the God of gold or money coming from trillion dallar bailouts they are selling out our constitution and creating a new god of gold.
A Beast to worship and make sacrifices too. No man, either small or great, rich, bond or free, will be able to “buy, nor sell without benefiting this money beast, nor be involved in U.S. commerce unless he is marked or marketed to make personal sacrifices to build up this God made of our money, borrowed through the efforts of our right handed works. Taxation..
Taxation without representation is a god of slavery. Even infants are marked to sacrifice unto this god of gold down through future generations with their right hands of labor. Remember Moses when they gathered the peoples gold and created a new golden god to worship? That is exactly what we are doing today in order to sell out Christ as America’s God, for a new god to save us, made of our own gold. We then have no choice but to make sacrifices to it.
Remember the presidents statement. We must all make personal sacrifices for this bank bailout!
Please help me expose this monster to the whole world through my published book, now available to the all on Amazon. com. Why? Christians think the beast has not come yet! They are looking for the wrong prophetic signs! Surprise, THE BEAST GOD IS ALREADY HERE, AND HE HAS ALREADY MARKED ALL SMALL AND GREAT, AND RICH AND POOR, FREE AND BOND, EXACTLY AS JOHN PROMISED.
In order to not worship this beast, we must build up Christ again in its place by uniting christians to the truth.
Why? Because this Beast is doing everything it can to prevent me from getting this information out to the world. If I could expose this hidden monster to the world, perhaps Sarah or someone like her, could be president in 4 years. The rapture is not now! Christ promised that the entire world must hear his gospel before the end can come. That has not happened yet! He promised christians that they must endure to the end of the harvest. Not be raptured out before the job is completed.. Remember his promises! The wheat and the tares must grow together and not be harvested early!!! Do not expect to get raptured out yet!
Perhaps this information needs to reach the light of day before people will actually hear anything conservatives try to teach them.
A spiritual approach rather than a political is needed badly. Watch the you tube movies on my sight. or click my picture above..
Paul
www. eternaltruth.
net
u obvously have problems dude
Paul,
You seem confused to me. Please read my blog posts to get a better understanding of what a godly man does or does not do. Also, the anti-Christ sets up an image in the temple of God and is thrown into the lake of fire along with his false prophet at the end of the 1,000 year reign of Jesus Christ on this earth. Your theology is way off base.
I do not think Sarah Palin should have said ‘yes’ to become Mr. McCain’s vice president because I do not think she was qualified then, nor do I think she is qualified now.
777denny
Hello
We really enjoyed your plan on the time line second coming of Yeshua.We keep the new moon crescent calendar, You also appeared to keep the same , until you mention that Trumpets can not fall on certain days, the only thing we do not understand is how can you keep the correct calendar but observe the postponements which are delayed Holy days. No man has the right to postpone God’s Holy days for thier own tradition. Can you explain this. Thanks
Love in Yeshua
I see a Mid-Trib or Pre-Wrath Rapture happening at the middle of Dan. 70th Week or after but at lease a year before the end. The 24 elders in heaven are the actual ones who were there when Moses made a copy of in the desert, so they’re not representing the Church. The Restrainer is Michael, the arch angel, who ceases to defend Israel at the middle of the 70th. At this time, Michael kicks out Satan and 1/3 of fallen angels that begin God’s Wrath starting with Trumpet Judgements of 1/3 each!! The mid also starts the 2 witnesses and sealing of 144,000. Why? Because the Rapture happened (i.e. Seal #5=martyrs in heaven) and God always has a witness to His Word. Trib/Great Trib/Jacob’s Trouble = 42months, not 7 years, read your Bible. Rapture happens before Wrath of God that happens at mid 70th Week that starts the 42mo. (3 1/2 years) of Great Tribulation. P.S. “no one knows day or hour” is jewish idiom for the 5th Jewish feast in fall of Rosh Hashana that means for Rapture! Believers WILL know the annual feast God set since Mount Moriah. God bless.
Matthew 10:16 “Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.”
Ray & Sue,
Sorry to take so long in responding.
I claim not to be smart enough to answer your question sufficiently to my or your satisfaction.
I will say I believe the 48 hour time period is right at the end of a moon cycle. I believe this is what Jesus is saying when He says keep watching. He even says keep watching to the THIRD watch. Remember, Jesus is smarter, and His Father is wiser than us all.
JC,
Every man should not have an interpretation he is spreading around about the prophecy of the book of Revelation. There is ONLY ONE prophecy, and Jesus the Messiah warned that the HEARERS would be responsible for ADDING or TAKING AWAY from the prophecy of the book of Revelation. Jesus will not be mocked. Those responsible for adding to the prophecy of the book of Revelation WILL receive the wrath of God. Those that take away from the prophecy of the book of Revelation will have their part taken from New Jerusalem. These violators will be weeping and gnashing their teeth OUTSIDE the kingdom, like the five foolish virgins Jesus warned about.
777denny
country boy,
i must say sometimes i would like to die as for me there is nothing here for me-all my lovies are gone and things are dark- i am loosing the will to live here on earth
bunny,
Thank you for stopping by and taking the time to express your feelings about your situation.
Sometimes we feel like there is no hope, or the ourcome of something will be a certain way. Sometimes we are right, but I think that most of the time we are wrong.
I must say that I would not want to be without my family, since being a dad and husband makes me feel fulfilled. I have been alone, and it is pure torture in the long run.
But that is ONLY because WE make it so. God is NEVER boring, nor is there is dull moment when we truly serve Him in complete humility and thankfullness, knowing Elohim is worthy of all honor, glory and praise.
When we feel like giving up, that is when He can and REQUIRES you and I to go that one more step further, not even knowing what will happen next, if anything.
But alas, we see an open door to help someone. Then we are alive again as we praise Him for letting a disgusting sinner like me help the God of all creation, even if it is only in some small way. Then we know that we CAN still help the King of kings after all. Even on a death bed we can bring glory to our worthy King.
Remember my two beliefs that I would like on my tiny, inexpensive tombstone:
1) Nothing matters, except what God wants.
2) All glory, honor and praise go to God.
Please feel free to e-mail or continue this conversation, since God is in the business of helping those who want to help Him.
777denny
Let God be the Truth & every man a Liar…..In Matt 16:8
Our God, Jesus our Savior, is speaking: I will build my Church and the Gates of Hell shall not PREVAIL against it. Prevail means: [to be superior in strength influence power, to be the overcomer or master someone, to have ultimate triumph or predomination} Rev 13: 7 “And it was given unto him to make war with the Saints and to Overcome (or Prevail) against them” Since both of these scriptures cannot be true at the same time, the Church who cannot be overcome or Prevailed against cannnot be the same group of saints on earth who are overcome & put to death. In fact, verse (6) The Beast who is overcoming Trib Saints on Earth will be blaspheming “them that dwell in Heaven(The Church) which God calls his Tabernacle, Greek word: Perioikeo – Those residing around, those dwelling round about; neighbors, etc. Further proof: Rev 5: 6-10 Elders Greek: Presbotace – Senior or Aged Man -member of the Celestial Council.
Representing all Saints in Heaven out of every kindred, tongues, nations – The Church is clearly seen in Heaven before the Lamb, Jesus opens the first seal which is the rider on the White Horse, the Anti-/christ, Rev 3:10-11 Because thou has KEPT the word of MY PATIENCE, I also will keep you FROM (not in) the hour of Temptation which shall come upon all the world…..Keeping the Lord’s Patience is this: Greek word: Hoop-om-no-ay – to have a cheerful, hopeful, enduring, Patient – Continual Waiting for the “harpazo” – rapture that could happen anytime – Immanency. Only the Pre-Trib belief is “keeping the word of His Patience” faithfully, all other timelines are not. He also warned the Philadelphia not to let a man take your crown. Rev 3: 11 “Behold I come quickly (Tac-hu) means suddenly, without warning, by surprise, without delay….hold fast that which you have(Blessed Hope or the Rapture) that no man Take Your Crown. The only crown you could lose is the Crown of Rejoycing given at the time of the Rapture. YOu may lose it if you’re not watching for Jesus to return as He told us to do. We will use Paul for our next witness. 1 Thess 5:23 “And I pray God that your whole spirit, and soul, and body be
PRESERVED (Greek Word: Tey-reh-o – means to guard from LOSS or INJURY by keeping the EYE Upon) …and BLAMELESS, unto the COMING of the LORD! If this does’nt make you reconsider nothing will, I guess. Wait, I will just use one more word found in the “Harpazo” scriptures: 1Thess 4: 17 “Then we which are alive and ‘REMAIN – IF YOU CAN FIGURE WHY REMAIN IS THERE, THE COMPLETE mystery of the RAPTURE CAN BE KNOWN – With this simple word REMAIN, you can know exactly why the Pre-Trib position is the correct one to believe in. {All Mid-Trib, Pre-Wrath, and Post Trib believers are not watching for hjm before the Tribulation, thus, they are NOT doing what Jesus told us to do. Jesus told the Church of Sardis Rev 3:3 “Therefore if thou will not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shall not know what hour I will come upon thee” Do you think for one who is looking for Anti-Christ and Tribulation are actually looking for Christ to come anytime. I think not, so they are not watching for the coming of Jesus or the rapture; they’re convinced that preservation is not for them or of their families. They actually believe that before Christ marries his “Bride” the Church she needs to be purified by the Devil’s “Son of Perdition” by overcoming and prevailing against her; then finally killing her! That sounds a little “off base” to me! But each to his own belief, remember todays decision will be tomorrow’s Reality. No thanks, I choose LIFE and DELIVERANCE instead of DEATH & DESTRUCTION!
Carl Blythe,
You are misinterpreting the passages you have provided.
The scripture which you are using about Jesus saying the GATES of HELL shall not prevail against His body, and then using the scripture in the book of Revelation that says His church shall be overcome by the anti-Christ, does not contradict each other. The bible says that this time period will NOT totally crush all Christians, but that we who REMAIN until the coming of the Lord shall NOT preceed those who are in the graves, and THEN we shall ever be with the Lord, reigning with Christ for 1,000 years on this Earth. The church shall NOT be tottally overcome, since those days are SHORTENED FOR THE ELECT’S SAKE.
You have also profained the Word of God in the book of Revelation when you interpret the passage that talks about the paitence of the saints meaning that Christians should be patiently waiting for Christ to “rapture” the church BEFORE Daniel’s 70th week. You have violated the commandment from the Lord NOT to add nor take away from the prophecy of the book of Revelation. You have now been thoroughly warned that you are in danger of recieving God’s wrath in the soon coming wrath of God during Daniel’s 70th week and/or be taken out of the book of life.
I have much information in this blog provided for you and others to reconsider your pride and arrogance concering interpreting the prophecy of the book of Revelation. This book is NOT to be tampered with, as Grapejuice Evangelicalism loves to do. They do not fear the Lord as commanded to, but rather “revere” the Lord as we would an Earthly king, giving due reverence to postion. But the Word of God is eternal and cannot be bribed, bought, sabotaged, negotiated with, defeated, or be annulled. The Word of God is immovable no matter how many Grapejuice Evangelicals believe and teach and preach otherwise. It is an immovable Rock that will break into pieces those that land upon it, but crushes those it lands upon. Alas, the false church ALWAYS persecutes the real church, like the Catholics, Lutherans and Calvinists did to whom they called the “Anabaptists.” I believe ALL Denominalationism is wrong, the local church being able to fulfill requirements to hold the office of a bishop and other posts of the body of Christ.
BTW, all who preach your false gospel and false prophesy concerning when Christ comes back for His bride will be found to be liars, of which the lake of fire is reserved for. God is a CONSUMING FIRE who is not mocked, since whatsoever a man sows that shall he also reap. The fear of the Lord is the BEGINNING of wisdom from above.
Thanks for listening,
777denny
Denny,
Bill Arnold, the “clown who took your crown” will be staying down when the Lord comes around to take us out with his shout and that is what the Rapture is all about. Sorry you will miss his return too since you believe man’s word instead of these words that Jesus said: In my Father’s house are many mansions, if it were not so I would have told you, I go to PREPARE a PLACE FOR YOU and if I go to PREPARE a Place for YOU,
Carl Blythe,
If you are teaching God’s people and others about your new doctrine, which is contrary to over 1,800 years of Christian teaching that the “cathing away” is when He returns to Earth to set up His kingdom, you are in violation of Christ’s clear warning not to add nor take away from the prophecy of the book of Revelation. You will receive God’s wrath in the upcoming plagues and/or your name will be taken out of the lamb’s book of life.
Please try to fear God, then you will understand that since Jesus means what He says, one tries to avoid the easy commandments, like not adding nor taking away from the prophecy of the book of Revelation.
Thanks,
777denny
And then three are those who are partial preterests. Every serious Christian pastor-teacher should read G.K. Beale’s book: The Book of Revelation (NIGTC series). Monumental! The position would be the Idealist. But we also have the genre of apocalyptic, prophcey and epistle! A must read!
Fr. Robert (Anglican)
Fr. Robert (Anglican),
My VERY STRONG recommendation is for all Christians to leave all denominational churches. These do not seem to be sanctioned by scripture, the local church being the focal point in the bible.
Look at it this way; Why would the Holy Spirit be involved in board meetings to decide what is best for His body?
The false church is not accountable to the local body of Christians, but rather to boards led by MEN. Jesus referred to locations in the book of Revelation, not denominations.
Thanks for listening,
777denny
Amen! This has been my thought since I was the chairman of Right to Life in my city, speaking in over 40 churches. Too much like big business, political and socialite events.
Part of my ministry is to the Laodicean Church, what I call the Church of the Pathetic Apathetic. Caring all about themselves while the unsaved are dying without Christ.
Also, there’s so much fluff being taught, no meat, that I feel better meeting with true dedicated believers in my home. We are the church, not some brick building with a ten thousand dollar spire.
Prayer, fellowship, fasting, ministry to the community, scripture studies and evangelism. This is the work of the church.
MK
Mary Kay Mason,
Thank you for stopping by and sharing your thoughts about the state of the body of Christ in America.
You may want to look at my blog entry about “Grapejuice Evangelicalism.”
Please feel free to come back again and give us your opinions.
Thanks,
777denny
Bottom line, if you see Israel “Confirm a covenant” that means a covenant already established, {1967 borders, e.g. } mark it on your calendar, the 70th Week of Daniel has begun.
Prepare your heart, live a godly life now. Pray, grow in Christ, study the scriptures. Witness! Study verses on persecution, because it’s coming big time!!
Prepare for economic collapse…….everybody sees that coming!
Buy non- hybrid seeds for a garden. Plant fruit trees. Store rice, etc.
Quietly begin to prepare for a day when there is no food, or supplies in the stores.
check out my website for a full list of everything to do to prepare for tribulation.
Start a small home church, stay close and prepare together, and keep quiet about it.
If you fail to prepare after all of Christ’s warning s then
you deserve what you’ll have, nothing.
http://www.spiritwars.net
He is near, even at the door.
Mary Mason,
Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts with our readers.
I have already been to your web site, and am concerned about some of your interpretations of the prophesies of the book of Revelation. But I also think you have very much valuable information that many Christians need to hear.
I may look more at your site to gain a better understanding of your doctrines.
Thanks for listening,
777denny
I have studied Daniel’s Timeline.com and DVD, it is awesome. The site states the tribulation, the 70th Week of Daniel, will commence from 2010 through 2017. The evidences he states are hard to refute. Please check it out.
And for those who want to prepare for tribulaton in 2010 I pray you consider to read my chapter “Prepare for Tribulation” on http://www.spiritwars.net.
One would have to be spiritually blind to not see the prophetic signs all around us.
Now is the time to commit to Christ with all your heart, soul, mind and strength! And to witness the gospel!
Wake up church, the end IS near. Persecution against the church is coming.
“Strengthen the things which remain and are at the point of death.” Revelation.
Mary Kay Mason,
I believe your assessments about current conditions are correct.
Please stop by again to learn more about my ministry to see if we can develope some kind of bond to get the Truth out before it is too late.
Thanks,
777denny
Truly the Lord is bring many of the family together to work His will in these last days. Praise His holy name!
The Lord had me to quit my nursing career to serve Him warning the Laodicean church and teaching believers to prepare for the coming calamities and how to witness to 21st century humanistic man.
http://www.spiritwars.net
PLEASE BRETHREN PREACH THE GOSPEL!
THERE IS SO LITTLE TIME!
Denny I will gladly put your link on my website if you want me to.
If there is anything that I can do to help you brother, call on me.
In His Royal Majesty’s service,
Mary Kay Mason
Mary Kay Mason,
You absolutely may put my link up upon your web site. Let me know if you want me to reciprocate.
There IS something YOU can do. You can pray for me. You can accept some of my handsome gospel cars to pass out to those you so desire. You could stay close to this blog so that maybe we can collaberate on serving the Lord in some way in the future.
I have found no willing laborers to help me with my ministry, at least none that I know of. Many are married to their religion, but not to Christ. As you have already witnessed in your life; taste the Lord and see that He is good. He is good and kind and long-suffering. He was the One Who helped me as a babe and child. I didn’t know at all Who it was that was helping me, but He has showm me flashbacks over the years to when I was really young when He “communicated” with me. I think He does this with all children.
Anyway, YES! there is definately something you can do. But always make sure it is the will of the Lord.
I’ll leave you with this verse to ponder:
Amos 8:11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:
12 And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it.
Thanks,
777denny
777denny
Hey mate, I am not a fundamentalist, so I don’t subscribe to your simplicity on the doctrine of the historical Church. With the bane of postmodernism “all” Christian churches have been effected. I am not without my understanding here either, my greatgram was among those called “the brethren” or Plymouth Brethren. Also my last name is Darby. ( see JND, though no relation) So I know “the brethren” effects in Ireland. Very sectarian!
Though later greatgram was baptised by A.T. Pearson in Spurgeons Tabernacle. I am in my 50’s. Again, the history of the Western Church is full of bumps.
The best corradiation or spiritual focus by the Holy Spirit is Christ, still incarnate at the right hand or Throne of God, (Heb.7:25-26). The Ascension of Christ is everything!
Yours,
Fr. Robert (Anglican)
D. Phil.,Th.D.
irishanglican,
I do not think the LORD is in favor of denominalationalism. I think that this is man’s religion. He follows what man wants and tries to fit his conception of God to that. The services aren’t even run according to the way the bible explains.
It doesn’t matter one iota what your history is, it only matter what God wants.
In conclusion, I sure do hate religion directed by man.
Thanks for listening,
777denny
Denny,
One thing mate to remember, the Church is itself a pilgirm Church or Body, and lives “itself” in a fallen world, thus also that God is sovereign. If God wanted a Church of visible perfection He certainly could have it, but this does not fit the biblical reality, from the covenant people of God in the OT, to the New.
I hate myself sectarian churches. The Church is One , Holy Catholic and Apostolic realty, but always a pilgrim Church and Body. As the Church are the people of God! I would read the Letter of 1 Peter to display my point. Our enemies are ‘the world, the flesh, and the devil’. (1 Pet. 2:11 ; chap. 5:8-9)
Thanks to let me share…
Fr. Robert
irishanglican,
Are you unaware that the false church, which the Catholic church is part of, under leadership of the popes, persecuted and killed the true church of Jesus Christ, whom they called the “Anabaptists,” for about 600 years? Heck, they even made torture instruments to kill the children of God! A kindgom divided against itself cannot stand. This was the kingdom of Darkness persecuting the true church of God.
I choose NOT to be decieved. How about you?
Thanks for listening,
777denny
*reality
Denny,
The “Catholic” aspect of the Church is not just “Roman” Catholic, but Anglican, etc. And too the E. Orthodox. It appears your fundamental ideas must broaden historically!
Deception is most worse when it is personal and religious! But no true Christian can be in total deception, but he can be ignorant.
I am personally an Anglican Christian with Reformed doctrines. But, always part of the Church Catholic!
Sincerely In Christ,
Fr. Robert
irishanglican,
Just so there’s no misunderstanding, I will state emphatically that the Catholic church is NOT the body of Christ. I beseech ALL those involved in the Catholic or other denominations to leave them in favor of local churches answering to local control.
BTW, I have broadened my history to understand there ARE fundamental truths, one of which is that the organized religions throughout the last two thousand years persecuted the true body of Christ, which really didn’t have a name or organization of any sort much of the time, as far as I can tell. The blind WILL lead the blind into the ditch.
777denny
Denny,
And just so you know again, what “Catholic” means.. it does not just include Roman Catholics, but since the word means universal, it includes every member of the true Body of Christ! And I am here to tell you that there are true Christians in the Roman Catholic Church! (Though I am an Anglican historically myself, and do not follow the doctrines of the Papacy) But at least by doctrine they believe and teach that Christ is God incarnate, the Trinity and triune nature of God, and the real atonement and resurrection of Christ, etc. And these are also “fundamental” truths in every real Christian Church and Body.
The fact that you are pressing the local church verses the episcopal form of Church goverment; this can become sectarian! I know all about the local churches, from “the brethren” to Witness Lee, etc. Of course there are historically others, which “stripe” you are I am not sure? But certainly beware of sectarianism!!! This is as bad a sin and problem, since it can involve certain pharisaical manners and morals!
Again, I say…’Deception is most worse when it is personal and religious.” Here is a deep ditch!
Sincerely In Christ,
Fr. Robert
Fr. Robert,
No matter what denomination has them in the chains of the ways of men, those who eventually end up enduring to the end will hunger and thirst after RIGHTEOUSNESS, and will find the Truth and rejoice after breadking their bonds of burden.
I will ask you if you are gathering the saints together at your church in the way prescribed in 1 Corinithians chapter 14?
As far as fundamental truths are concerned, one must go beyond these truths to see if one can pass the test. If one knows and teaches truths, it does NOT therefore necessarily mean that they will be able to enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but ONLY those who DO the will of God. If we fail at loving one another, we have failed Christ, and our reward will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Few that be that find the Way and KEEP IT to the end.
777denny
Denny,
Again, I am not sure what “your” historical form of this aspect of “gathering” is? We all come from some “place”!
As to 1st Corinthians chapter 14, this cannot simply be lifted into a place of obedience without sound blblical exegesis and interpretation. This is always proper explanatory and expository in the full biblical sense. And thus hermeneutical. This is sound in biblical word studies and thus Judeo-Christian theology.
It appears that you are using overt Biblicism, independent of sound dogma, history or tradition? The historical grammatical text must be honored!
Having said all this, only then can we begin on such texts and begin to pass the “tests” of God.
“Look to yourselves, that you may not lose what you have worked for, but may you win a full reward.
Any one who goes ahead and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God, he who abides in the doctrine has both the Father and the Son.” ( 2 John 8-9) Note the use of the articles… “the doctrine” and “the Father and the Son.” Here is a trinitarian reality and spirituality. We “abide” in God’s truth!
Sincerely In Christ,
Fr. Robert
Fr. Robert,
As to 1st Corinthians chapter 14, this CAN simply be lifted into it’s proper place of obedience to scripture with sound blblical exegesis and interpretation applied, and thus, making the entire issue hermeneutical. This IS sound in biblical word studies, and thus Judeo-Christian theology.
The descendants of the “Anabaptists” believed in the gifts and manifestations of the Holy Spirit, just like the holy scriptures point out. It is DENOMINALATIONALISM that has the HISTORY of fighting against sound doctrine – thus YOUR roots are corrupted.
You seem to be trying to label me as a “fundemental” who is “simplistic,” not following history, not following standard exegesis methods of interpretation of scripture, and someone who is “overterly biblical” and possibly “independent of sound dogma, history and tradition.”
I say all your labeling doesn’t change the history, the facts, nor the Word of God. Insulting me is what I think you are trying to do. This of couse would mean you would be breaking the whole point of the whole reason why to become a Christian in the first place: LOVE. Without it, one is proud, arrogant, and deceiving himself into thinking he is something, when in fact he is not.
777denny
Denny,
First, no Sir I am not seeking to insult you at all. I have offered not one piece of ad hominem! And proper labeling (if you will) is demanded by scripture. (2 Tim. 2:15 / Matt. 7:12-27)
However, as you quote me, I am seeking to show “your” own inconsistencies, in both the biblical and certain lack in the historical.
Finally, you yourself make some very harsh judgments, so ya got to be able to take ‘the heat of the kitchen!’
Sincerely Yours Sir, In Christ,
Fr. Robert
irishanglican,
OK, I’ll take you at your word ans say you were not trying to insult me and we’ll forget the past and deal with the present.
I do not believe that I have made inconsistencies. If you charge a charge, then bring the facts to show you are correct.
But, since you still continue to think you have a better understanding of the true church of Yeshua HaMashiach and how it has been operating and persecuted by denominationalism such as the Catholic church, Lutherans and Calvinists, I will show thee therefore the history:
The following is from THE PROTESTANT PERSECUTIONS
July 11, 2005 (David Cloud, Fundamental Baptist Information Service, P.O. Box 610368, Port Huron, MI 48061, 866-295-4143, fbns@wayoflife.org) -
The following is from A History of the Churches from a Baptist Perspective, which is one of the 13 titles in the Advanced Bible Studies Series published by Way of Life Literature:
Notice that the false church perscutes those that find strength in the LORD?
Next we could move on to the false Catholic church and it’s 600 years of persecution of Anabaptists and others…
Thanks for listening,
777denny
Denny,
Thanks, we shall indeed “seek” to dialogue about these issues of great difference, both the historical and Judeo-Christian theology.
I am not unaware of the historical Anabaptist movement. In fact I know some of the modern Anabaptists personally. From Mennonites to the Amish. I have also studied some of their personal and historical material (at their residences). I count many as friends and brethren.
Lets put Miguel Servetus in place, he was not an Anabaptist organizer. And Faustus Socinus also rejected infant baptism, and Socinian influences are to be traced on some of the later Mennonites.
It is often hard to classify much of the history of the different Anabaptist theology. Many of their groups have rejected the Trinity and triune nature of God (as mentioned with Socinian elements. Also Incarnation issues, etc.). This is the major concern for my mind, and not re-baptism, nor ecclesiology.
Now before we proceed, we must define what the Church is for you? You keep hammering the historic Churches! Which to my mind is very unfair. If we look at the history of fundamentalism, and many of the independent churches, they do not fair so well either! So just what is the historical Church to you?
Finally, we must see all Christian men, teachers, etc. As men and people of “their” time. Our own postmodern churches, and many of our Christian men and teachers, pastors, etc. They are men of feet of clay also. Note, the big problems with sexuality today! And even in the most conservative churches!
I will pass at present in any defense of Calvin’s greatness. You can find both so-called historians..on both sides, pro and con. The point is biblical-theological and historical presuppostions!
Sincerely In Christ,
Fr. Robert
*presuppositions
Fr. Robert,
I must commend you for your last comment. You have spoken wisely in much of it.
The Holy Spirit of God is the Comforter Who was sent by the Father making one born again through the Spirit of God – Christ in you, the hope of glory.
Here this fact very clear: There is only ONE God! There is no God the Father and ALSO God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. God is One, as Jesus (Jesus IS the Word of God) and the scriptures have always proclaimed:
Jesus is Lord of lords. I believe He is saying that He is God in the flesh and that all should love Him (through His Father) with all their hearts, souls, minds, and strength.
Next we see Jesus setting the record straight that He is the Son of God, but by flesh He is through the line of David’s ancestry:
Next we see Jesus admitting that only One is good, and that is God. Jesus IS Good, taste and see for yourself!
Paul in next:
Notice above that he says there is but ONE God, Whom is the Father. He then goes on to acknowledge the Truth by saying that Jesus Christ is Lord, by whom are all things. It is the Father OF Whom are all things.
Next we see what kind of relationship we have with God the Father:
Above we see in the Old Covenant that God is our Father, and that there is only One God Who created us.
Next we’ll see that there is only One God. This God is the God of the Jews, and also the God of the Gentiles:
Next we’ll see Paul set the record straight as to the order of things:
Notice above again that Jesus is Lord and that there is but One God the Father.
Next we see in James that it is good to believe that there is but One God, the devils also trembling about this fact:
Next we’ll see again the indisputible fact that there is but One God, and One Mediator between God and men, that Person being Yeshua HaMashiach.
Next we’ll see that Jesus proclaimed to be in the Father and the Father in Him:
Notice above that Jesus is doing the works of the Father and claiming to be one with God by saying the Father is in Him and He in the Father, thus testifying of His own Deity.
Next we’ll see Jesus talking to His Father, acknowledging His Father is Lord of Heaven and Earth:
Notice above also that only the Father knows the Son, and only the Son knows the Father, and also those to whom the Son will reveal Father to.
Next we see that Jesus told us what kind of relationship people have with the Father:
Notice that after one is born of God (Jesus explained to us that one must be born again to enter into the Kingdom of Heaven) he has God as his true Father.
Next we see why Jesus told us that our Father is God:
Notice above that we have access to God through the Spirit of God and thus becoming the household of God, Christ being the Chief Corner Stone. This building groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord, through the Holy Spirit of God.
Next we see Jesus taught us the order of things. Jesus said that His Father was greater than He, and He also said that the Holy Ghost is from the Father:
Jesus explains above that the Spirit of Truth is our Comforter on Earth because Jesus will be going to the Father after obeying what His Father tells Him to do. It is God the Father’s Spirit that dwells inside of believers. Jesus also explains that the Father is in Him and He in His
Father, and thus we have God the Father and His Son Jesus living inside of us THROUGH the Holy Spirit of God the Father.
Next we’ll see that God’s Name is Elohim, which is plural. Thus we have only One God, in which we have Jesus being the Word of God, and then He became flesh.
So we see above that God is comprised of more than One deity.
Next we’ll see that Jesus is the exact representation of God the Father:
Notice above that God the Father calls His Son Jesus God, but that He being the Father is His God. Yet there is only ONE God.
Finally we’ll see that in the beginning there was Jesus Who IS the Word of God before becoming the only begotten of the Father. We again see that all things that were made were made through Jesus:
Notice above that no man has seen God at any time, and that His Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, has revealed Him.
In conclusion, I do NOT hold to the “Trinitarian” God or the “Triune God,” but rather acknowledge what the holy scriptures plainly teach: there is only One God the Father, His Son being the expressed manifistation of His image, the Comforter, which is the Holy Spirit of God and also callled the Holy Ghost, being OF God and FROM God. This is why Jesus warned that people will be forgiven if they blaspheme God the Father or His Son, Yeshua HaMashiach, but NOT the Holy Spirit of God, since this is the Way in which one becomes born again and God deals with human beings.
Thanks for listening,
777denny
Denny,
I thought that you might be Monarchian. As my friend Joel. But it sadlly makes a heresy of unity. I have been over this much with others here, (see my own blogs) So I will forgo.
I would only suggest (if you have any open thought here?) To read Tertullian, and especially his ‘Against Praxeas’. Also if you are a reader? I would also suggest Eric Osborn’s book: Tertullian, first theologian of the West. (Cambridge, paperback 2003)
“For thru Him (Christ) we both (Jew & Gentile) have access by one Spirit unto the Father.” (Eph.2:18)
Again, thanks for a bit of your time.
Fr. Robert
irishanglican,
I do not understand why you have asserted that my belief “makes a heresy of unity.” There is not disunity in my belief. The word “trinity” nor “triune” is not found in scripture ANYWHERE concerning explaining Who God is. What IS found in scripture is that God is One, and that Christ is the exact representation of the image of God the Father, the Comforter testifying to this fact. I am the one who is reflecting what the Word of God says, not trying to convince you of what man has come up with. Remember that the false church has been persecuting those who have been correctly baptizing people for hundreds of years. They also have persecuted those that disagrees with their triune god concept.
777denny
PS..Denny,
See my blog (perhaps?) : Baptism, theology and formula is Trinitarian.
There can be no economy of God without also His own ontology: being & substance, which is eternally Triune and Trinitarian.
Thanks again,
Fr, Robert
Denny,
Hey mate (friendly introduction).
My statement that Monarchianism created a hersey of unity is historical, both Dynamic Monarchianism to Modalistic Monarchianism (your view). See the history of the late second century and the third century. This was the time when theology and theologians saw that St. Paul’s ministry, of God, etc. was an economy of God as tri-personal. One of the grave problems with Modalistic Monarchianism, is that if the Father and Son were one identical person, the Word having no independent substance and being a mere “emanation”, that consequently it was the Father Himself who entered the Virgin’s womb, so becoming, as it were, His own Son, and Who suffered, died and rose again. Therefore, this unique Person united in Himself mutually inconsistent attributes, being invisible and then visible, impassable then passible. Yes todays Modalism is much more refined, etc. but it is still in need of at least God’s duality. Indeed the Father and the Son are “hupostasis” – persons and separate eternally. And as Augustine says the Holy Spirit is the person and bond of this eternal love. God’s is always One, but always also a divine Triad…’one ousia, three hupostaseis’. See and read closely St. John’s Gospel chapters…14-17. With an open mind and heart, the Triune nature of God is easily seen!
Finally, it is a “false church” that denies overtly the MYSTERY of the Trinity (Triad) and Triune God! Indeed, the “histroical” Christain Church: Catholic, Protestant and E. Orthodox are fully Trinitarian! (Rev.1:8 also 4:8…”Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, Which was, and is, and is to come.” The “name” (singular) of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.” (Matt. 28:19) The Triunity, tri-personal God!
“Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the MYSTERIES (plural) of God.” (1 Cor.4:1)
Sincerely In Christ,
Fr. Robert
Fr. Robert,
I do NOT believe that God the Father and Jesus His Son are One and the Same. I simply believe that the Holy Spirit of God is God’s Spirit, and not a Person. There is NEVER any mention of a “trinity” or “triune God” in the scriptures. 1 Corinthians doesn’t seem to have anything to do with whether or not God is triune.
Furthermore, the Catholic church, as I have already stated, is a false church. How can a false church that persecuted the true church for over 600 years be the true body of Christ? This demonic organization even found ways to make the torture of their victims even more evil and painful with inventions of devices of torture and death. A kingdom divided against itself cannot stand. It is my STRONG opinion that God will finally judge and punish the Catholic church religion during the soon coming wrath of God during Daniel’s 70th week. I have already warned some to flea this church, and all denominations.
777denny
Mr. Robert,
I was raised a Catholic. I went to Catholic grammar school and high school. That means mass 6 days a week and all nuns teaching classes.
My life was full of love for God but it was more filled with fear of God. It was filled with fear because I was deceived into believing that I was not educated enough to study the Bible. I didn’t have my PhD in God.
And so in fear I obeyed all the churches rules, prayed to statues of human beings, recited empty dead prayers, not prayers from the heart but merely read off a piece of paper. Once a week a man told me that he had the power to forgive me my sins and I would be clean, until the next time I sinned.
I was in chains to fear and constant but futile attempts to be good enough for God.
Then I found out, I couldn’t be good enough, not ever, never.
Then I found the blood of Yeshua cleaned me of all my sins. I no longer needed to work for heaven’s home.
Christ alone had done it all.
The gospel you preach is sending many multitudes to hell and I fear the price you will pay for your part in it will be a painful price.
“Work out your salvation with fear and trembling.”
This is such an important verse, we must figure out, study out the truth of salvation……. for our eternity depends on it.
Forever His,
Mary Kay
Let me talk first with Mary Kay…
Let me begin with the fact that I am no longer a “Roman” Catholic myself. Though I was rasied Irish Roman Catholic in Dublin Ireland. And my priests and nuns could really play hard ball…legalism to the max! (I turn 60 this Oct.) But, as bad as the RCC has been in the past, it has and is simply changing. Just as all postmodern churches have and are changing! This includes liberal and conservatives also. And this is just a fact to our time! Again both liberal and conservative are affected!
The problem with human behavior, is Sin! But this also includes all human beings, and all thus even all Judeo-Christian Churches! No one escapes! As Romans 7:25 declares, “So then I of myself with the mind, indeed serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.” This combination continues with every believer until death! As Romans 8:1 also says, we have our “no condemnation” only “In Christ Jesus” (Thanks be to God thru Jesus Christ our Lord!…verse 25)
This is always grace, and grace alone! So I am though an Anglican, a pastor and teacher in the “reformed” positions. I hope you know something about both the Reformation and the Reformed doctrines? One needs no doctorates here, but the belief in God’s grace and His full biblical revelation! But, one must have proper history, and do full study. Christianity is fully historical!
It is here that much of “your” type of Christian (so-called) teachings and dogma break down. You are not really historically accurate, but just dogmatic and biblicist. This alone will never give truth, but often leads to pharisaical and hypocritical manners and morals. Which are hardly Christ-like and Christian!
Sincerely In Christ,
Fr. Robert
PS…As to Phil. 2:12, verse 13 enacts the right idea and power: “For it is God who is at work in you, enabling you BOTH to will and to work for His good pleasure!”
You said, “It is here that much of “your” type of Christian (so-called) teachings and dogma break down. You are not really historically accurate, but just dogmatic and biblicist. This alone will never give truth, but often leads to pharisaical and hypocritical manners and morals. Which are hardly Christ-like and Christian!”
Well, I ‘m glad we got that cleared up! LOL!
I can clearly see the truth now by your many scriptures to back up your words! jeeze!
Big words impress me not. Proving the evidence to back those words through the holy scriptures is the only thing that counts. If you’re not going to do that skip it.
MK
Mary Kay,
What was I to think? When you make a personal “judgment” of me with the statement: “The gospel you preach is sending multitudes to hell..” etc. When you had no idea what gospel I preached, but made this judgment because I had been a RC, and now I am an Anglican? But in reality, there are many in the Anglican Church, both now and in history, that have preached the gospel and doctrines of Grace. You again just show your ignorance at best.
“Big words”? Madam, I am a conservative, biblical theologian (D. Phil., Th.D.) I simply use my mind, and with faith follow the historical and Apostolic Gospel. To quote scripture, and explain something of its meaning is the job of the pastor-teacher.
My evidence is the Spirit of Christ, and I hope the truth that it gives to the heart and mind. And this can only come from the Holy Scripture!
Yours,
Fr. Robert
Denny,
I would hope that you are open enough to do some historical study? And you can see for yourself, what the Monarchian doctrines have done in the early history of its inception (late second century into the Third). See perhaps J.N.D. Kelly’s classic book: Early Christian Doctrines.
The real biblical approach to God is always thru revelation (Scripture) and faith. Thus God is seen from two directions, both His intrinsic being, and also as He manifests Himself in the “economy” – The ordered process of His self-disclosure, both eternally One & Triune! But again, always faith is involved, and this is always a divine gift!
Finally, I was thinking of the verse you quoted (Mary Kay) as to what the Christian must always be concerned in this evil and fallen world, the glory of God In Christ! The early Christians had nothing, and what they did have was always given back to God.!
To God be the Glory!
Fr. Robert
It is the saying of St. Bernard “that to serve God is nothing else but to do good and suffer evil. He that would go to perfection by means of sweetness and consolation is mistaken; you must desire no other consolation from God than to end your life for His sake in the state of true obedience and subjection. Christ our Lord’s way was not that of sweetness and softness, nor did He invite us to any such, either by words or example, when He said: :He that will come after Me, let him deny himself, and let him take up his cross and follow Me.” The soul that would be united to Christ must be conformable to Him, and follow Him in the way of suffering….O what a great happines is it for the soul to be subdued and subject! what great riches it is to be poor! what a mighty honour to be dispised! what a height is it to be beaten down! What a comfort it is to be afficted! what a credit of knowledge is it to be reputed ignorant! and finally, what a happiness of happinesses is it to crucified with Christ! This is that lot which the Apostle gloried in – “God forbid that I should glory save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ.” Let others boast of their riches, dignities, delights, and honours: but to us there is no higher honour than to be denied, despised, and crucified with Christ… To deny one’s self in all things, to be subject to another’s judgement, to mortify continually all inward passions, to annihilate one’s self in all respects, to follow always that which is contrary to one’s own will, appetite, and judgement, are things that few can do; many are those who teach them, but few they that practise them.”
St. Bernard of Clairvaux….French Roman Catholic, monastic (1091-1153)
Fr. Robert
Fr. Robert,
I cannot find fault in the words above.
777denny
O Gracious Father. We humbly beseech Thee for Thy Holy Catholic Church [all real Christianity], that Thou wouldest be pleased to fill it with all truth, in all peace. Where it is corrupt, purify it, where it is in error, direct it; where in anything it is amiss, reform it. Where it is right, establish it, where it is in want, provide for it, where it is divided, reunite it; for the sake of Him who died and rose again, and ever liveth to make intercession for us, Jesus Christ, Thy Son our Lord. Amen.
Anglican Book of Common Prayer
Fr. Robert (Anglican)
Fr. Robert (Anglican),
I assure you that the body of Christ is NOT called “Thy Holy Catholic Church.” The entire notion that Christ would call Himself “Catholic” is preposterous to me, and in my opinion, evil.
One cannot get beyond history, nor the facts thereof, that the popes were EVIL, along with a great many (if not all) of the leaders of the Catholic Church for well over 600 years. I cannot begin to tell you how disgusting it is for someone to say that the pope is Christ on Earth, since for over 600 years the popes persecuted the TRUE body of Christ, which the popes referred to as the “Anabaptists.”
I am convinced you are incorrect. Please do not continue your false religious doctrines of Catholicalism, since the Catholic religion in my STRONG opinon will, as I have already warned you, be judged by God and destroyed once and for all.
The Anabaptists never went along with the false Catholic church (one particularly evil period was when they executed virtually all, if not all, of the thousands in a town who wouldn’t PLEDGE their obedience to the Catholic Church and it’s EVIL pope!) nor it’s “reformers” Augustine, Martin Luther or Calvin. All four of these religions (I say this since Augustine was influential in both protestant and Catholic history) were and still are VERY WRONG in their interpretations of the holy scriptures!
777denny
PS…There is a full redemptive Body of Christians, no doubt in every place where the name of the Lord Jesus is called & named! (1 Cor. 1:2)
Fr. R.
irishanglican,
I obviously cannot agree with your PS statement since demons may mention the Name of the Lord Jesus, and also false brothers can certainly call on the Name of the Lord. This is not being picky to the extreme, but rather a rebuttal of your current statement, which I consider to be false.
777denny
PRETRIB RAPTURE DISHONESTY
by Dave MacPherson
When I began my research in 1970 into the exact beginnings of the pretribulation rapture belief still held by many evangelicals, I assumed that the rapture debate involved only “godly scholars with honest differences.” The paper you are now reading reveals why I gave up that assumption many years ago. With this introduction-of-sorts in mind, let’s take a long look at the pervasive dishonesty throughout the history of the 179-year-old pretrib rapture theory:
Mid-1820’s – German scholar Max Weremchuk’s work “John Nelson Darby” (1992) included what Benjamin Newton revealed about John Darby in the mid-1820’s during his pre-Brethren days as an Anglican clergyman:
“J. N. Darby was a very subtle man. He had been a lawyer, or at least educated for the law. Once he wanted his Archbishop to pursue a certain course, when he (J.N.D.) was a curate in his diocese. He wrote a letter, therefore, saying he had been educated for the law, knew what the legal course would properly be; and then having written that clearly, he mystified the remainder of the letter both in word and in handwriting, and ended up by saying: You see, my Lord, such being the legal aspect of the case it would unquestionably be the best course for you to pursue, etc. And the Archbishop couldn’t make out the legal part, but rested on Darby’s word and did as he advised. Darby afterwards laughed over it, and indeed he showed a copy of the letter to Tregelles. This is not mentioned in the Archbishop’s biography, but in it is the fact that he spoke of Darby as ‘the most subtle man in my diocese.’ ”
This reminds me of an 1834 letter by Darby which spoke of the “Lord’s coming.” Darby added, concerning this coming, that “the thoughts are new” and that during any teaching of it “it would not be well to have it so clear.” Darby’s deviousness here was his usage of a centuries-old term – “Lord’s coming” – to cover up his desire to sneak the new pretrib idea into existing posttrib groups in very low-profile ways!
1830 – In the spring of 1830 a young Scottish lassie, Margaret Macdonald, came up with the novel notion of a catching up [rapture] of Spirit-filled “church” members before Antichrist’s “trial” [tribulation] of non-Spirit-filled “church” members – the first instance I’ve found of clear “pretrib” teaching (which was part of a partial rapture scheme). In Sep. 1830 “The Morning Watch” (a journal produced by London preacher Edward Irving and his “Irvingite” followers, some of whom had visited Margaret a few weeks earlier) began repeating her original thoughts and even her wording but gave her no credit – the first plagiarism I’ve found in pretrib history. Darby was still defending posttrib in Dec. 1830.
Pretrib promoters have long known the significance of her main point: a rapture of “church” members BEFORE the revealing of Antichrist. Which is why John Walvoord quoted nothing in her revelation, why Thomas Ice habitually skips over her main point but quotes lines BEFORE and AFTER it, and why Hal Lindsey muddies up her main point so he can (falsely) assert that she was NOT a pretribber! (Google “X-Raying Margaret” for info about her.)
NOTE: The development of the 1800’s is thoroughly documented in my book “The Rapture Plot.” You’ll learn that Darby wasn’t original on any chief aspect of dispensationalism (but plagiarized the Irvingites); that pretrib was initially based on only OT and NT symbols and not clear Scripture; that the symbols included the Jewish feasts, the two witnesses, and the man child – symbols adopted by Darby during most of his career; that Darby’s later reminiscences exaggerated his earliest pretrib development, and that today’s defenders such as Thomas Ice have further overstated what Darby overstated; that Irvingism didn’t need later reminiscences to “clarify” its own early pretrib development; that ancient hymns and even the writings of the Reformers were subtly revised to make it appear they had taught pretrib; and that after Darby’s death a clever revisionist quietly made many changes in early Irvingite and Brethren documents in order to steal credit for pretrib away from the Irvingites (and their female inspiration!) and give it dishonestly to Darby! (Before continuing, Google the “Powered by Christ Ministries” site and read “America’s Pretrib Rapture Traffickers” – a sample of the current exciting internetism!)
1920 – Charles Trumbull’s book “The Life Story of C. I. Scofield” told only the dispensationally-correct side of his life. Two recent books, Joseph Canfield’s “The Incredible Scofield and His Book” (1988) and David Lutzweiler’s “DispenSinsationalism: C. I. Scofield’s Life and Errors” (2006), reveal the other side including his being jailed as a forger, dishonestly giving himself a non-conferred “D.D.” etc. etc.!
1967 – Brethren scholar Harold Rowdon’s “The Origins of the Brethren” quoted Darby associate Lord Congleton who was “disgusted with…the falseness” of Darby’s accounts of things. Rowdon also quoted historian William Neatby who said that others felt that “the time-honoured method of single combat” was as good as anything “to elicit the truth” from Darby. (In other words, knock it out of him!)
1972 – Tim LaHaye’s “The Beginning of the End” (1972) plagiarized Hal Lindsey’s “The Late Great Planet Earth” (1970).
1976 – Charles Ryrie”s “The Living End” (1976) plagiarized Lindsey’s “The Late Great Planet Earth” (1970) and “There’s A New World Coming” (1973).
1976 – After John Walvoord’s “The Blessed Hope and the Tribulation” (1976) brutally twisted Robert Gundry’s “The Church and the Tribulation” (1973), Gundry composed and circulated a 35-page open letter to Walvoord which repeatedly charged the Dallas Seminary president with “misrepresentation,” “misrepresentations” (and variations)!
1981 – “The Fundamentalist Phenomenon” (1981) by Jerry Falwell, Ed Dobson, and Ed Hindson heavily plagiarized George Dollar’s 1973 book “A History of Fundamentalism in America.”
1984 – After a prof at Southeastern College of the Assemblies of God in Florida told me that the No. 2 man at the AG world headquarters in Missouri – Joseph Flower – had the label of posttrib, my wife and I had two hour-long chats with him. He verified what I had been told. But we were dumbstruck when he told us that although AG ministers are required to promote pretrib, privately they can believe any other rapture view! Flower said that his father, an AG co-founder, was also posttrib. We also learned while in Springfield that when the AG’s were organized in 1914, the initial group was divided between posttribs and pretribs – but that the pretribs shouted louder which resulted in that denomination officially adopting pretrib! (For details on this and other pretrib double-mindedness, Google “Pretrib Hypocrisy.”)
1989 – Since 1989 Thomas Ice has referred to the “Mac-theory” (his reference to my research), giving the impression there’s no solid evidence that Macdonald was the real pretrib originator. But Ice carefully conceals the fact that no eminent church historian of the 1800’s – whether Plymouth Brethren or Irvingite – credited Darby with pretrib. Instead, they uniformly credited leading Irvingite sources, all of which upheld the Scottish lassie’s contribution! Moreover, I’m hardly the only modern scholar seeing significance in Irvingism’s territory. Others in recent years who have noted it, but who haven’t mined it as deeply as I have, include Fuller, Ladd, Bass, Rowdon, Sandeen, and Gundry.
1989 – Greg Bahnsen and Kenneth Gentry produced evidence in 1989 that Lindsey’s book “The Road to Holocaust” (1989) plagiarized “Dominion Theology” (1988) by H. Wayne House and Thomas Ice.
1990 – David Jeremiah’s and C. C. Carlson’s “Escape the Coming Night” (1990) massively plagiarized Lindsey’s 1973 book “There’s A New World Coming.” (For more info, type in “Thieves’ Marketing” on MSN or Google.)
1991 – Paul Lee Tan’s “A Pictorial Guide to Bible Prophecy” (1991) plagiarized large amounts of Lindsey’s “The Late Great Planet Earth” (1970).
1991 – Militant Darby defender R. A. Huebner claimed in 1991 to have found new evidence that Darby was pretrib as early as 1827 – three years before Macdonald. Halfway through his book Huebner suddenly admitted that his evidence could refer to something completely un-rapturesque. Even though Thomas Ice admitted to me that he knew that Huebner had “blown” his so-called evidence, prevaricator Ice continues to tell the world that Huebner has “positive evidence” that Darby was pretrib in 1827! Ice also conceals the fact that Darby, in his own 1827 paper, was looking for only “the restitution of all things” and “the times of refreshing” (Acts 3:19,21) – which Scofield doesn’t see fulfilled until AFTER a future tribulation!
1992 – Tim LaHaye’s “No Fear of the Storm” (1992) plagiarized Walvoord’s “The Blessed Hope and the Tribulation” (1976).
1992 – This was when the Los Angeles Times revealed that “The Magog Factor” (1992) by Hal Lindsey and Chuck Missler was a monstrous plagiarism of Prof. Edwin Yamauchi’s scholarly 1982 work “Foes from the Northern Frontier.” Four months after this exposure, Lindsey and Missler stated they had stopped publishing and promoting their book. But in 1996 Dr. Yamauchi learned that the dishonest duo had issued a 1995 book called “The Magog Invasion” which still had a substantial amount of the same plagiarism! (If Lindsey and Missler ever need hernia operations, I predict that the doctors will tell them not to lift anything for a long time!)
1994 – In 1996 it was revealed that Lindsey’s “Planet Earth – 2000 A.D.” (1994) had an embarrassing amount of plagiarism of a Texe Marrs book titled “Mystery Mark of the New Age” (1988).
1995 – My book “The Rapture Plot” reveals the dishonesty in Darby’s reprinted works. It’s often hard to tell who wrote the footnotes and when. It’s easy to believe that the notes, and also unsigned phrases inside brackets within the text, were a devious attempt by someone (Darby? his editor?) to portray a Darby far more developed in pretrib thinking than he actually had been at the time. I found that some of the “additives” had been taken from Darby’s much later works, when he was more developed, and placed next to or inside his earliest works! One footnote by Darby’s editor, attached to Darby’s 1830 paper, actually stated that “it was not worth while either suppressing or changing” anything in this work! If his editor wasn’t open to such dishonesty, how can we explain such a statement?
Post-1995 – Thomas Ice’s article “Inventor of False Pre-Trib Rapture History” states that my book “The Rapture Plot” is “only one of the latest in a series of revisions of his original discourse….” And David Reagan in his article “The Origin of the Concept of a Pre-Tribulation Rapture” repeats Ice’s falsehood by claiming that I have republished my first book “over the years under several different titles.”
Although my book repeats a bit of the Macdonald origin of pretrib (for new readers), all of my books are packed with new material not found in my other works. For some clarification, “The Incredible Cover-Up” has photos of pertinent places in Ireland, Scotland, and England not found in my later books plus several chapters dealing with theological arguments; “The Great Rapture Hoax” quotes scholars throughout the Church Age, covers Scofield’s hidden side, a section on Powerscourt, the 1980 election, the Jupiter Effect, Gundry’s change, and more theological arguments; “The Rapture Plot” reveals for the first time the Great Evangelical Revisionism/Robbery and includes appendices on miscopying, plagiarism, etc.; and “The Three R’s” shows hypocritical evangelicals employing occultic beliefs they say they have long opposed!
So Thomas Ice etc. are twisting truth when they claim I am only a revisionist. Do they really think that my publishers DON’T know what I’ve previously written?
Re arguments, Google “Pretrib Rapture – Hidden Facts” and also obtain “The End Times Passover” and “Why Christians Will Suffer ‘Great Tribulation’ ” (AuthorHouse, 2006) by media personality Joe Ortiz.
1997 – For years Harvest House Publishers has owned and been republishing Lindsey’s book “There’s A New World Coming.” During the same time Lindsey has been peddling his reportedly “new” book “Apocalypse Code” (1997), much of which is word-for-word the same as the Harvest House book – and there’s no notice of “simultaneous publishing” in either book! Talk about pretrib greed!
1997 – This is the year I discovered that more than 50 pages of Dallas Seminary professor Merrill Unger’s book “Beyond the Crystal Ball” (Moody Press, 1973) constituted a colossal plagiarism of Lindsey’s “The Late Great Planet Earth” (1970). After Lindsey’s book came out, Unger had complained that Lindsey’s book had plagiarized his classroom lecture notes. It was evident that Unger felt that he too should cash in on his own lectures! (The detailed account of this Dallas Seminary dishonesty is revealed in my 1998 book “The Three R’s.”)
1998 – Tim LaHaye’s “Understanding the Last Days” (1998) plagiarized Lindsey’s “There’s A New World Coming” (1973).
1999 – More than 200 pages (out of 396 pages) in Lindsey’s 1999 book “Vanished Into Thin Air” are virtually carbon copies of pages in his 1983 book “The Rapture” – with no “updated” or “revised” notice included! Lindsey has done the same nervy thing with several of his books, something that has allowed him to live in million-dollar-plus homes and drive cars like Ferraris! (See my Google articles “Deceiving and Being Deceived” and “Thieves’ Marketing” for further evidence of this notably pretrib vice.)
2000 – A Jack Van Impe article “The Moment After” (2000) plagiarized Grant Jeffrey’s book “Final Warning” (1995).
2001 – Since 2001 my web article “Walvoord’s Posttrib ‘Varieties’ – Plus” has been exposing his devious muddying up of posttrib waters. In some of his books he invented four “distinct” and “contradictory” posttrib divisions, claiming that they are either “classic” or “semiclassic” or “futurist” or “dispensational” – distinctions that disappear when analyzed! His “futurist” group holds to a literal future tribulation and a literal millennium but doesn’t embrace “any day” imminency. But his “dispensational” group has the same non-imminency! Moreover, tribulational futurism is found in every group except the first one, and he somehow admitted that a literal millennium is in all four groups! On the other hand, it’s the pretribs who consistently disagree with each other over their chief points and subpoints – but somehow end up agreeing that there will be a pretrib rapture! (See my chapter “A House Divided” in my book “The Incredible Cover-Up.”)
2001 – Since my “Deceiving and Being Deceived” web item which exposed the claims for Pseudo-Ephraem” and “Morgan Edwards” as teachers of pretrib, there has been a piranha-like frenzy on the part of pretrib bodyguards and their duped groupies to “discover” almost anything before 1830 walking upright on two legs that seemed to have at least a remote hint of pretrib! (An exemplary poster boy for such pretrib practice is Grant Jeffrey. To get your money’s worth, Google “Wily Jeffrey.”)
FINALLY: Don’t take my word for any of the above. Read my 300-page book “The Rapture Plot” which has a jillion more documented details on the long-hidden but now-revealed history of the dishonest, 179-year-old, fringe-British-invented, American-merchandised-until-the-real-bad-stuff-happens pretribulation rapture fad. If this book of mine doesn’t “move” you, I will personally refund what you paid for it!
[lately ran into the above while computerizing!]
William,
Thanks for this information. It’s long, but worth a gander to see the beginnings of the pre-trib false teaching.
777denny
Denny,
I see that you have removed your former statement? I think we are done here, the dialogue was very thin from the beginning anyway. You no doubt, like Mary Kay, think you guys are right, and thus superior. This is very sad, and very pharisaical! God and Scripture are much bigger (profound) than your simplicized interpretations!
William,
My greatgram Irish & Scot was a PB in Ireland and later England. I am not unfamiliar with the doctrines of “The Brethren”. They have had some positive influence on the evanglical world. I do not follow the pre-trib myself either. But to call it false doctrine, would be unfair I think. It is an issue about the “timing” of the Rapture.
Fr. Robert
Fr. Robert,
Let God be the Judge between what I have stated and what you have stated.
Thanks for listening,
777denny
Brother you speak the truth.
This is a difficult truth to hear and easy to dismiss. I say this by experience. I have witnessed to hundreds of Catholics, being raised a Catholic myself, attending Catholic grammar and high school. That’s mass six days a week and daily religion classes.
The Catholic religion is filled with so many lovelies, the beautiful church building, the beautiful traditions like attending midnight mass on a snowy Christmas Eve,, the warm memories of family, the brightly lit candles and the fragrance of incense.
But as much as these things draw our senses to the beauty of it all, our souls are tormented with fear and UNQUENCHABLE quilt, chained by our own secret sins, never being set free in the cycle of sin, fear, repentance and confession for the forgiveness of sin.
It is obvious that Mr. Robert is a dedicated man. But with much study comes the danger of arrogance and pride, and religion can become the main thing and Yeshua the secondary thing.
Humbling ourselves is one of the most difficult works to perform. Mr. Robert I say this in true love, I was once where you are now. If you pray for revelation I believe He will open your eyes to truth. And you will forever be set free and will be released from those chains of working your way home.
I will pray for you. I want to see you someday in heaven.
Mary Kay
Denny, Mary Kay,
If you are both Oneness alone? It is you that have forsaken the historical Church and God. That God is a triunity, is truth from the Old to the New Covenant revelation!
Have you both even considered that it might be “you” that have errored? I am always by God’s grace just a man with faith seeking understanding! But forever and always a “Churchman”!
Always in The Triune God,
Father Robert
+ 1 Peter 1:2
Denny,
For you, and your blog readers.. I would be willing to seek to give a biblical statement toward the truth of God triune. It would come from Scripture, and also that spiritual truth and aspect that is in the supernatural design of Scripture and numbers. Especially from One to Three! “Three points us to what is real, essential, perfect, substantial, complete, and Divine.” I will quote from the wonderful book by E.W. Bullinger, called: Number in Scripture.
But I will only proceed in a certain dialogue and exchange?
Yours,
Fr. Robert
Fr. Robert,
You may enlighten us on your belief in a triune God.
777denny
Denny,
With my little Irish mother (88) in hospice right now, and perhaps only days to live on this earth? I am gonna just pass along the profound book by E.W. Bullinger (1837-1913), Number in Scripture. It is simply grand! Bullinger, though an Anglican was very, very conservative on the scripture text! I have most of his works (The Companion Bible, A Critical Lexicon and Concordance to the English and Greek New Testament, etc.) These two works are a must for any real Bible student!
While I do not follow Bullinger’s dispensationalism, his Greek word knowledge, and just general conservative love of Holy Scripture is very good and certainly profound!
READ HIM people!!!
Sincerely In Christ,
Fr. Robert
“Three” is the number associated with the Godhead, for there are “three persons in one God.” Three times the Seraphim cry, “Holy, Holy, Holy” – one for each of the three persons in the Trinity (Isa.6:3) : the lving creatures also in Rev.4:8.
Three times is the blessing given in Num. 6: 23-24: – “The Lord bless thee and keep thee (the Father); The Lord make His face shine upon thee; and be gracious unto thee (the Son); The Lord lift up His countenance upon thee, and give thee peace” (the Holy Spirit).
Each of these three blessings is two-fold, so that these are two members in each, while the name Jehovah occurs “three” times. This marks the blessing as Divine in its source. No merit drew it forth; grace was its origin and peace its result. ~ E.W. B.
I listened to the message by Wilkerson on “anguish”. A good message. But real anguish has always been part of the Chtistian life! Indeed anguish is central to Christian spirituality. And here the Cross is center stage in the Christian life. And for the Christian, the Cross of Christ is a spirituality of redemptive suffering and anguish – the personal pain and conviction of redeemed sinners. Until glory, we will never be anything in ourselves, but sinners who have become regenerate by grace, but certain glory here. The Christian does not escape Rom.7: 25 fully until death, and even now not complete until the Eschaton.
Fr. Robert