‘Grapejuice Evangelicalism’ believes that Christ did NOT turn water into wine as his first miracle, but instead turned water into grapejuice.
I believe God is interested in tiny details. One tiny detail I’ve noticed is that in John chapter 6 verse 66 it says that many disciples no longer followed Jesus after he told them they would have to eat his flesh and drink his blood in order to enter the kindom of heaven.
And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine. 4 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come. 5 His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it. 6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece. 7 Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim. 8 And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the feast. And they bare it. 9 When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not from where it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew;) the governor of the feast called the bridegroom, 10 And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now. 11 This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.
For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. 26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord’s death till he come. 27 Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord. 28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. 29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body. 30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. 31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
The holy bible refers of the goodness of wine when it is used correctly: And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household, (Deut. 14:26). Other verses are Genesis 14:18; Psalm 104:15; and 1 Timothy 5:23.
For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a devil. The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners!.
And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish. 38 But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved. 39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.
There was a drink-offering of wine presented with the daily sacrifice (Exodus 29:40, 41), and also with the offering of the first-fruits (Leviticus 23:13), and with various other sacrifices (Numbers 15:5, 7, 10). Warnings are given in the New Testament against excess in the use of wine (Luke 21:34; Romans 13:13; Ephesians 5:18; 1 Timothy 3:8; Titus 1:7).
John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
Genesis 27:28 Therefore God give thee of the dew of heaven, and the fatness of the earth, and plenty of corn and wine
Deuteronomy 11:14 That I will give you the rain of your land in his due season, the first rain and the latter rain, that you may gather in your corn, and your wine, and your oil.
For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me. 58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.
52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. 54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it? 61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? “What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? 63 “It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. 64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. 65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
66 From resultthat timemany of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him. 67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away? 68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life. 69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.
And it shall come to pass in that day, that the mountains shall drop down new wine, and the hills shall flow with milk, and all the rivers of Judah shall flow with waters, and a fountain shall come forth out of the house of the LORD, and shall water the valley of Shittim.(Joel 3:18)
Filed under: Christians, Evangelicals, GOP, Islamofascism, Israel, Jesus Christ, bible, eternal life, heaven, hell, religion, sin | Tagged: Yeshua HaMashiach, Grapejuice Evangelicalism, new wine, Kingdom of Heaven, Yeshua Ben Josef
Don’t see the point in John 6:66 other than verse 67 – that the others were NOT chosen. Read the verses leading up to 66. HELLO?
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OK, so you wanted opinions … from the rigidity of what you have written, I would gather that you would have been one of the circumcision crowd that St. Paul talks about in Galations.
What does it matter if the water was turned to femented wine (wine) or new wine (grape juice)? The fact is that it was a miracle.
Jesus did not say that men will know that you are my followers because of how many verses you can quote, or whether you can one-up the guy in the pew in front of you … he said that all men will know that you are my followers by your love for one-another.
Honestly, I did not see a whole lot of love in your discourse, only a lot of condemnation for trivial items which will not matter on the other side of The River.
You want to boast in how many verses you can quote … don’t forget that the Enemy knows the Bible better that you or I … only he USES it to try to condemn and confuse us, he does not give a rat’s tail that it justifies us and condemns him. He does not care what is in it except for how he can use it to destroy us. Next time you want to get on a bible-quoting binge consider that.
Knowledge puffs up but love builds up.
Buz
Buz,
Isaiah 5:20 Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil;
Who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness;
Who substitute bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!
2 Timothy 3:1 But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come. 2 For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3 unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good, 4 treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these. 6 For among them are those who enter into households and captivate weak women weighed down with sins, led on by various impulses, 7 always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 8 Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth, men of depraved mind, rejected in regard to the faith. 9 But they will not make further progress; for their folly will be obvious to all, just as Jannes’s and Jambres’s folly was also.
Jude 1:10 But these men revile the things which they do not understand; and the things which they know by instinct, like unreasoning animals, by these things they are destroyed. 11 Woe to them! For they have gone the way of Cain, and for pay they have rushed headlong into the error of Balaam, and perished in the rebellion of Korah. 12 These are the men who are hidden reefs in your love feasts when they feast with you without fear, caring for themselves; clouds without water, carried along by winds; autumn trees without fruit, doubly dead, uprooted; 13 wild waves of the sea, casting up their own shame like foam; wandering stars, for whom the black darkness has been reserved forever. 14 It was also about these men that Enoch, in the seventh generation from Adam, prophesied, saying, “Behold, the Lord came with many thousands of His holy ones, 15 to execute judgment upon all, and to convict all the ungodly of all their ungodly deeds which they have done in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.” 16 These are grumblers, finding fault, following after their own lusts; they speak arrogantly, flattering people for the sake of gaining an advantage.
OK, so you didn’t hear a word I said … I should have expected as much.
Buz
Here … you want to go verse to verse … read these and digest them before you start screaming about wine-vs-grapejuice … and if you don’t think they’re relevent, read them again and again until they make some sense:
Galations 3:
(1) You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified.
(2) I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard?
(3) Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?
(4) Have you suffered so much for nothing—if it really was for nothing?
(5) Does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you because you observe the law, or because you believe what you heard?
(6) Consider Abraham: “He believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.”
(7) Understand, then, that those who believe are children of Abraham.
(8) The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: “All nations will be blessed through you.”
(9) So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.
(10) All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.”
(11) Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, “The righteous will live by faith.”
(12) The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, “The man who does these things will live by them.”
(13) Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.”
(14) He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.
(15) Brothers, let me take an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or add to a human covenant that has been duly established, so it is in this case.
(16) The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say “and to seeds,” meaning many people, but “and to your seed,” meaning one person, who is Christ.
(17) What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise.
(18) For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on a promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.
(19) What, then, was the purpose of the law? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was put into effect through angels by a mediator.
(20) A mediator, however, does not represent just one party; but God is one.
(21) Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law.
(22) But the Scripture declares that the whole world is a prisoner of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe.
(23) Before this faith came, we were held prisoners by the law, locked up until faith should be revealed.
(24) So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith.
(25) Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law.
(26) You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus,
(27) for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
(28) There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
(29) If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
Galations 4:
(8) Formerly, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those who by nature are not gods.
(9) But now that you know God—or rather are known by God—how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable principles? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again?
(10) You are observing special days and months and seasons and years!
(11) I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you.
Galations 5:
(1) It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.
(2) Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all.
(3) Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law.
(4) You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.
(5) But by faith we eagerly await through the Spirit the righteousness for which we hope.
(6) For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.
Buz,
I see that you are proposing faith verses the Law of Moses to become born again. You are correct that following the law after Christ died and rose again and assended into Heaven cannot justify anyone nor save anyone.
But, I am talking about what is commanded of Christians AFTER their conversion.
All that you have done is confirm what I already believe. No amount of good works OR the following of the Law of Moses will justify a person before God. Only faith, repentance and baptism according to the scriptures. The people in the old testament who were saved were those who obeyed God’s commandments, laws and ordinances AND believed in the coming of the Christ.
I am talking about what happens AFTER a person has been born again.
I used to believe ‘once saved always saved’ (eternal security) for many, many years before I read the bible for myself and learned the TRUTH.
Let’s take a look at what the Author of OUR faith says about Christ in us, the HOPE of glory.
I tell you the truth, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death. (John 8:51)
Those on the rock are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away. (Luke 8:13)
Some fell on rock, and when it came up, the plants withered because they had no moisture. (Luke 8:6)
Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt at all by the second death. (Rev 2:10,11)
But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found. (Luke 15:32)
But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death. (Rev 21:
Then he said to them all: “If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will save it. What good is it for a man to gain the whole world, and yet lose or forfeit his very self? If anyone is ashamed of me and my words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels.” (Luke 9:23-26)
But unless you repent, you too will all perish. (Luke 13:3)
All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. (Matt. 10:22)
Someone asked him, “Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?” He said to them, “Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to.” (Luke 13:23, 24)
The man who loves his life will lose it, while the man who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life. (John 12:25)
In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed. “This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart.” (Matt. 18:34,35)
Those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned. (John 5:29)
The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels. As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.” (Matt. 13:36-43)
But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven. (Mat 10:33)
But anyone who says, “You fool!” will be in danger of the fire of hell. (Mat 5:22)
Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God. (Mat 5:
Nothing impure will ever enter it [New Jerusalem], nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life. (Rev 21:27)
Those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned. (John 5:29)
But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned. (Mat 12:36,37)
His master replied, “I will judge you by your own words, you wicked servant! You knew, did you, that I am a hard man, taking out what I did not put in, and reaping what I did not sow?” (Luke 19:22)
And the teachers of the law who came down from Jerusalem said, “He is possessed by Beelzebub! By the prince of demons he is driving out demons.” But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin. He said this because they were saying, “He has an evil spirit.” (Mark 3:22, 29,30)
No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also. See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. And this is what he promised us—even eternal life. (1 John 2:23-25)
But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man “unclean.” For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. These are what make a man “unclean”; but eating with unwashed hands does not make him “unclean.” (Mat 15:18-20)
For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins. (Matt. 6:14,15)
Someone in the crowd said to him, “Teacher, tell my brother to divide the inheritance with me.” Jesus replied, “Man, who appointed me a judge or an arbiter between you?” Then he said to them, “Watch out! Be on your guard against all kinds of greed; a man’s life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions.” (Luke 12:13-15)
And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell. (Mark 9:47)
A certain ruler asked him, “Good teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone. You know the commandments: Do not commit adultery, do not murder, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother.” “All these I have kept since I was a boy,” he said. When Jesus heard this, he said to him, “You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” When he heard this, he became very sad, because he was a man of great wealth. Jesus looked at him and said, “How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God! Indeed, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” Those who heard this asked, “Who then can be saved?” Jesus replied, “What is impossible with men is possible with God.” Peter said to him, “We have left all we had to follow you!” “I tell you the truth,” Jesus said to them, “no one who has left home or wife or brothers or parents or children for the sake of the kingdom of God will fail to receive many times as much in this age and, in the age to come, eternal life.” (Luke 18:18-30)
The world and its desires pass away, but the man who does the will of God lives forever. (1 John 2:17)
He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God. (Rev. 2:7)
Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. (Rev. 22:14,15)
I answered, “Sir, you know.” And he said, “These are they who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.” (Rev. 7:14)
These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they kept themselves pure. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. (Rev. 14:4)
He replied, “My mother and brothers are those who hear God’s word and put it into practice.” (Luke 8:21)
But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. (Mat 5:28,29)
At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. (Matt 24:10,11)
From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him. (John 6:66)
The Lord said, “Who then is the faithful and wise steward, whom his lord will set over his household, to give them their portion of food at the right times? Blessed is that servant whom his lord will find doing so when he comes. Truly I tell you, that he will set him over all that he has. But if that servant says in his heart, ‘My lord delays his coming,’ and begins to beat the menservants and the maidservants, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken, then the lord of that servant will come in a day when he isn’t expecting him, and in an hour that he doesn’t know, and will cut him in two, and place his portion with the unfaithful. (Luke 12:42-4
Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them. Not everyone who says to me, “Lord, Lord,” will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, “Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?” Then I will tell them plainly, “I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!” (Mat 7:20-23)
Yet I hold this against you: You have forsaken your first love. Remember the height from which you have fallen! Repent and do the things you did at first. If you do not repent, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place. (Rev 2:4,4)
Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life. (Rev 2:10)
Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash (Mat. 7:24-27).
Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes. They will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy. He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. (Rev. 3:4-6)
The son said to him, “Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.” But the father said to his servants, “Quick! Bring the best robe and put it on him. Put a ring on his finger and sandals on his feet. Bring the fattened calf and kill it. Let’s have a feast and celebrate. For this son of mine was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.” So they began to celebrate. (Luke 15:21:24)
Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. 2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish. 3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: 4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. 5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. 6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. 7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. 8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. 9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. 10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. 11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. 12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. 13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh. (Matthew 25:1-13)
I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. 2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. 3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. 4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. 8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. 9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. 10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love. (John 15:1-10)
Also we will look at some other verses that have to do with obeying God.
Therefore lay aside all filthiness and overflow of wickedness, and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls. (James 1:21)
Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience. For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. (Hebrew 4:11-12)
…if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed. For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased men, I would not be a bondservant of Christ. (Galatians 1:9-10)
For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted, you may well put up with it! (2 Corinthians 11:4)
Again, when a righteous man turns from his righteousness and does evil, and I put a stumbling block before him, he will die. Since you did not warn him, he will die for his sin. The righteous things he did will not be remembered, and I will hold you accountable for his blood. (Ezek 3:20)
But if a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked man does, will he live? None of the righteous things he has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness he is guilty of and because of the sins he has committed, he will die. (Ezek 18:24)
If a righteous man turns from his righteousness and commits sin, he will die for it; because of the sin he has committed he will die. (Ezek 18:26)
If I tell the righteous man that he will surely live, but then he trusts in his righteousness and does evil, none of the righteous things he has done will be remembered; he will die for the evil he has done. (Ezek 33:13)
If a righteous man turns from his righteousness and does evil, he will die for it. (Ezek 33:1
For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. (Rom 8:13)
Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? (Rom 6:16)
But each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death. Don’t be deceived, my dear brothers. (James 1:14-16)
My brethren, if any among you strays from the truth, and one turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death, and will cover over a multitude of sins. (James 5:19,20, NASB)
If anyone sees his brother commit a sin that does not lead to death, he should pray and God will give him life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that he should pray about that. (1 John 5:16)
The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers. (Gal. 6:8-10)
By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. (1 Cor 15:2)
For if you live according to the sinful nature, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live. (Rom. 8:13)
The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. (Gal. 5:19-21)
If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a miraculous sign or wonder, and if the sign or wonder of which he has spoken takes place, and he says, “Let us follow other gods” (gods you have not known) “and let us worship them,” you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The LORD your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. (Deut. 13:1-3)
It is the LORD your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him. (Deut. 13:4)
That prophet or dreamer must be put to death, because he preached rebellion against the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt and redeemed you from the land of slavery; he has tried to turn you from the way the LORD your God commanded you to follow. You must purge the evil from among you. (Deut. 13:5)
For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men. It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, (Titus 2:11,12)
For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin—because anyone who has died has been freed from sin. (Rom 6:6,7)
For he who was a slave when he was called by the Lord is the Lord’s freedman; similarly, he who was a free man when he was called is Christ’s slave. (1 Cor 7:22)
But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were entrusted. You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness. (Rom 6:17,18)]
And, if it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner? (1 Pet 4:1
When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness. (Rom 6:20)
But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life. (Rom 6:22)
The goal of this command is love, which comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. Some have wandered away from these and turned to meaningless talk. (1 Tim. 1:5,6)
Do not share in the sins of others. Keep yourself pure. (1 Tim. 5:22)
So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him. (2 Pet 3:14)
Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world. (James 1:27)
Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. He who does what is sinful is of the devil (1 John 3:7,
This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother. (1 John 3:10)
You have wearied the LORD with your words. “How have we wearied him?” you ask. By saying, “All who do evil are good in the eyes of the LORD, and he is pleased with them.” (Mal 2:17)
I prayed to the LORD my God and confessed: “O Lord, the great and awesome God, who keeps his covenant of love with all who love him and obey his commands,” (Dan 9:4)
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned! (Gal 1:8,9)
Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers. (1 Tim 4:16)
He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. (2 Pet 3:16)
If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he deceives himself and his religion is worthless. (James 1:26)
Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. (2 John 1:9)
No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also. See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. And this is what he promised us—even eternal life. (1 John 2:23-25)
He who guards his lips guards his life, but he who speaks rashly will come to ruin. (Prov 13:3)
The tongue has the power of life and death, and those who love it will eat its fruit. (Prov 18:21)
Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. (1 Cor. 6:9,10)
My dear brothers, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry, for man’s anger does not bring about the righteous life that God desires. (James 1:19,20)
For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a man is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore do not be partners with them. (Eph. 5:5-7)
I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people—not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat. (1 Cor. 5:9-11)
We also know that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine. (1 Tim. 1:9,10)
See that no one is sexually immoral, or is godless like Esau, who for a single meal sold his inheritance rights as the oldest son. (Heb. 12:16)
Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral. (Heb. 13:4)
Since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God. (2 Cor. 7:1)
Keep your lives free from the love of money and be content with what you have, because God has said, “Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you.” (Heb. 13:5)
For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs. (1 Tim. 6:10)
Wealth is worthless in the day of wrath, but righteousness delivers from death. (Prov. 11:4)
…they entice people who are just escaping from those who live in error. (2 Pet 2:1
So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don’t fall! (1 Cor 10:12)
You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either. Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. (Rom 11:19-23)
The world and its desires pass away, but the man who does the will of God lives forever. (1 John 2:17)
Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. (James 4:7)
Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. (Rom. 6:12)
As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance. But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; (1 Pet. 1:14,15)
If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and (are) overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on the sacred command that was passed on to them. Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,” and, “A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud.” (2 Pet. 2:20-22)
No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it. (1 Cor. 10:13)
Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. (Rom. 8:5)
Flee the evil desires of youth, and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, along with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart. (2 Tim. 2:22)
In your struggle against sin, you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood. (Heb. 12:4)
So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. (Gal. 5:16)
What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to him, “Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. (James 2:14-17)
We are glad whenever we are weak but you are strong; and our prayer is for your perfection. (2 Cor. 13:9)
Though you probe my heart and examine me at night, though you test me, you will find nothing; I have resolved that my mouth will not sin. (Psa. 17:3)
To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. (Rom. 2:7,8)
We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. (1 John 2:3,4)
But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—if you continue in your faith, established and firm, not moved from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant. (Col. 1:22, 23)
See to it that no one misses the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many. (Heb 12:15)
I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel: which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. (Gal 1:6,7)
No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize. (1 Cor 9:27)
Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you—unless, of course, you fail the test? (2 Cor 13:5)
I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, and so, somehow, to attain to the resurrection from the dead. Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. (Phil 3:10-12)
It is God’s will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; that each of you should learn to control his own body in a way that is holy and honorable, not in passionate lust like the heathen, who do not know God; and that in this matter no one should wrong his brother or take advantage of him. The Lord will punish men for all such sins, as we have already told you and warned you. For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life. Therefore, he who rejects this instruction does not reject man but God, who gives you his Holy Spirit. (1 Thes 4:3-
Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction. (2 Thes 2:3)
Holding on to faith and a good conscience. Some have rejected these and so have shipwrecked their faith. Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme. (1 Tim 1:19,20)
Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly. Their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, who have wandered away from the truth. They say that the resurrection has already taken place, and they destroy the faith of some. (2 Tim 2:16-1
For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. (Heb 6:4-6)
If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. (Heb 10:26, 27)
But rebels and sinners will both be broken, and those who forsake the LORD will perish. (Isa 1:2
He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil. (1 Tim 3:6)
The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. (1 Tim 4:1)
A righteous man hates falsehood …. (Prov 13:5)
Hate evil, you who love the LORD … (Psa 97:10)
The fear of the LORD is to hate evil … (Prov 8:13)
Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt I had to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints. For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord. (Jude 3,4)
If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work. (2 John 10,11)
We are therefore Christ’s ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ’s behalf: Be reconciled to God. (2 Cor. 5:20)
Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded. (James 4:
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. (1 John 1:9)
He who conceals his sins does not prosper, but whoever confesses and renounces them finds mercy. (Prov 28:13)
Do you not notice the theme of OBEYING ALL of Christ’s commands or we too will be cut off? I did. That is why I changed.
We are saved TO DO GOOD works for God. IF after we have believed and been converted we CHOOSE to then disobey Him and continue in that path, we will end up in the lake of fire, just like the rest of the disobedient.
Buz, have you read this TESTIMONY of a 15-year-old girl who backslid and found herself in Hell, and then was allowed to came back to TESTIFY about it? It is a rather frightening and intriguing TESTIMONY of what Hell is like.
BTW, let’s not forget to be HOLY and the FEAR THE LORD, too.
My job is to warn and be a TESTAMENT against disobedience to God, and those who preach false doctrine. It is all your choice now.
Thank you,
777denny
Actually, NO … I am not only talking about what is necessary to acquire salvation … St. Paul also talks about KEEPING salvation. We do not acquire salvation through works, we also do not KEEP it through works. We keep it the same way we acquire it, through faith.
We do good works BECAUSE we have been saved.
I am married, and I am forced to hug and kiss my wife once a day because I am married!! Does that statement sound stupid? It should! I hug and kiss my wife because I love her, not because some piece of paper says that it is my duty.
The Christian life is the same. We are the bride of Christ. We obey Him and do as He asks, to the best of our ability and understanding because we love Him. Whether that is celebrating communion with wine and crackers, grapejuice and Wonderbread, or tomato juice and peanuts.
Jesus said that no longer would the law be written on tablets of stone but on the hearts of His followers. Sometimes we don’t get it quite right, and often we fail, but He attributes HIS righteousness to us. We are justified by the fact that Jesus died for us and loves us as a brother, not that we keep some nit-picky laws. He not only sees our actions, He sees our motives as well. And, He gives us “credit” for doing our best, even if we don’t get it 100% right.
In the chapters which I listed in Galations, St. Paul also says that we should not use our freedom as an excuse to sin. HOWEVER, while he devotes a few verses to that, 80% of the book he goes over and over and over the idea that, in Christ, we ARE free. We are no longer bound by the law. Elsewhere he also talks about not letting others judge you by what you eat and drink.
There IS a tendency to go to one extreme or the other … to either live like a reprobate, or like a monk. Our challenge, as Christians, is to walk the center line … to live in freedom but not in sin.
Just because some will tend to go beyond freedom into sin is no excuse to demand that everyone renounce their freedom.
Buz
Buz,
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned! (Gal 1:8,9)
Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers. (1 Tim 4:16)
He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. (2 Pet 3:16)
If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he deceives himself and his religion is worthless. (James 1:26)
Philippians 2:12 So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.
14 Do all things without grumbling or disputing; 15 so that you will prove yourselves to be blameless and innocent, children of God above reproach in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you appear as lights in the world, 16 holding fast the word of life, so that in the day of Christ I will have reason to glory because I did not run in vain nor toil in vain.
I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. 2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit. 3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you. 4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. 7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. 8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples. 9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love. 10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide in his love. (John 15:1-10)
At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. (Matt 24:10,11)
2 Timothy 4:2 preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with great patience and instruction. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, 4 and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.
Titus 3:10 Reject a factious man after a first and second warning, 11 knowing that such a man is perverted and is sinning, being self-condemned.
Proverbs 26:12 Do you see a man wise in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.
Whatever …
You asked for an opinion … I gave you mine. Rather than have a discussion on what you asked about, you vomited unrelated Bible verses all over the page. When I tried to reply with versus that I hoped you would read and understand, you seemed to make no attempt to listen, you just took off down another rabbit trail.
Proverbs 18:2
A fool finds no pleasure in understanding but delights in airing his own opinions.
Proverbs 26:4
Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you will be like him yourself.
… I will waste no more time with you.
Buz
I guess I am curious about one thing … why are you even doing this?
Buz
p.s. in point 37 …
vein = line or streak: as in a blood vessel, ore, or colouring
vain = conceited, futile, or worthless …
If you utter the name of God in a worthless oath, you take his name in vain .
Buz
Buz,
My mistake. Although vein in my WordWeb gives this as it’s second definition: A distinctive style or manner – “he continued in the vein for several minutes”
I do appreciate your correction here.
If you find any more
grammergrammargrammaticklegramaticlegrammaticlegrammatical errors, please feel free to let me know.Thank you,
777denny
I apoligize for my attitude. I should not have answered you in anger.
Buz
Buz,
Maybe you will get angry again, but there is hope for those who will humble themselves as Christ commanded us to do.
777denny
The Bible leaves a place for anger … Jesus was angry when he drove the money changers out of the temple. St. Paul tells us to “be angry but don’t sin.”
So, being angry, in itself, is not sin.
Sometimes the reason for our anger is sin (jealousy, pride, etc.) and sometimes our actions when we are angry constitute sin.
I still mostly disagree with your post. I believe that you are trying to use scripture as a club to conform others to your personal interpretation of the scriptures … and having lived under that kind of pressure, I became angry and lashed out at you. I should not have done that.
Buz
Buz,
777denny
I firmly believe in preaching the word of God. I believe in both the responsibility of leading the unsaved to Jesus and correcting Christians living outside of God’s will.
However, there is a difference between preaching what the bible says and preaching what we BELIEVE that the bible says. It is fine to preach what you beleive that it says to an unbeliever, because believe, even if it may be a bit errant is better than unbelief.
The ugly part comes when another Christian holds a different belief than you, for reasons which they have just as many supporting verses as you, but you believe that you must convince them that your interpretation is the correct or only right one.
I have been in a lot of denominations. Some believe in Eternal Security, others do not. Some of the preachers whom I respect the most DO believe in eternal security. Regardless, I know the arguments and the verses on both sides of the issue, and they are all valid. I can say the same about the pre-trib and post-trib return of Christ.
There are some doctrines which I reject outright as being in error. I do not believe in the “Health & Wealth” doctrine (or as some call it, “Name it and Claim it”). I know some good Christians who are just deceived by it, but I also believe that it is ultimately God’s responsibility to open their eyes. I cannot argue them out of it, I can only pray that God will show them the truth.
I believe your effort would be more productively spent rescuing those on the path to destruction rather than trying to get those on the straight and narrow path to walk on one side or the other.
A wise man once told me that “Every man has more right to hear the Gospel once than any man has to hear it twice.”
Buz
Buz,
May God Almighty have mercy on us all, in the Name of Jesus Christ I pray, Amen.
777denny
I agree that false doctrine is wrong. BUT, for your verse of 2 John 1:9, I would counter with John 6:37, 10:28 & 29. There are many verses on both sides of that fence. And just because someone believes that he is eternally secure because “no one can pluck him out of God’s hand” does not mean that he is following false doctrine. It only means that his interpretation of some verses is different than yours.
And, if I might add, to believe that your interpretations are the only correct interpretations of the bible, is bordering either on ignorance or arrogance.
I also agree that there are a lot of people who are in churches today who think that they are Christians, who will be terribly surprized at the great judgement. However, there are probably a lot who believe the same things you do who will be among that sad crowd, and a lot who believe differently than you do who will be standing next to you, hearing “well done, faithful servant”.
Galatians 5:19-21 tells of a list of sins for which many will perish, and I don’t see drinking grape juice in that list. Actually, St. Paul does say not to let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink or which days you keep as holy (Col 2:16).
If what you were trying to say is that people who were doing these things were not holy enough, then I would answer you that it is for God to judge and to convict a person of sin in their life. And if you are trying to say that they are not saved, I would answer that whether a person REALLY is saved, or whether they just think that they are is for the Holy Spirit to convict them. It is not our responsibility to put others under the microscope and pick out their nits.
When it comes to judgement, we are told to examine our own lives very carefully, and when we are right with God, then we correct others in love. I am sorry, but I saw no love, kindness, or gentleness in your admonitions … only judgement and condemnation … and for things that are not even “hard” sins … and in a public forum. We are told in Matthew that if we have something against another, we should go to that person in private, then with a couple of wittnesses. Have you gone to Benny Hin in private, or even written him a personal letter telling him that he has erred?
There are a ton of obvious sins which you could preach against … and call people to the true conviction of salvation. Start with the 10 Commandments and the Sermon on the Mount. “Don’t kill, and by the way, hating your fellow human being is the same as murder. Don’t commit adultry, and by the way, having erotic fantasies is the same as committing adultry.” And if you are going to start naming names, do as St. Paul did when he said that he was the Chief of the sinners.
Buz
So, are you going to answer my questions?
Buz,
What exactly is your question? I couldn’t find one.
I do have a new blog entry for you to consider, though:
http://777denny.wordpress.com/2009/02/06/woe-to-false-teachers-and-preachers-woe-to-them-that-follow-their-teachings/
777denny
I will respond in your new blog …